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A wet dream for conservatives

Those "dumbed down government tests" are usually constructed by outside private groups who are bankrolled by Republican legislatures who focus on "accountability" instead of giving students and teachers the resources to succeed. Republicans have become very adept at funneling taxpayer money into the private sector. Education is just one way.

Those students are scoring poorly because the competition is running schools.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
It's funded by state legislatures, it isn't really run by state legislatures. Regardless, how is that being run by home schoolers and private school advocates?
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Stop being dense, 2&2.
 
DreamOnDemOn said:
I am just pointing out that voluntary private schooling is preferable to forced government schooling for many reasons, one of them being that people operating private schools don't stick guns in anyone's face. Another one is that government schools do a poor job of educating. Even on dumbed-down government tests, students in government schools score poorly, especially those students that, acording to Ph, the "rich" are afraid of:

http://www.ncreportcards.org/src/stateDetails.jsp?Page=1&pYear=2010-2011

There is no reason to start personal attacks.
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1. Your characterization of EOG tests as "dumbed down" is inaccurate. I went to public schools, graduated from Wake and UNC-CH and work in corporate tax, and many of the areas they cover in EOGs we didn't even think about when I was in 3rd grade.
2. Many of those people live in rural poor areas. Those are the areas that by and large bring down your state averages. Do you think that benefactors are going to magically start seeding funds for capital and scholarships to build private schools in these areas?
3. Government schools do a fine job of educating. They unfortunately get 99% of the no win situations in the education system.
 
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If government schools did a fine job of educating, they would not need to force money out of other people. The education of your children is far too important to be left to government apparatchiks. They will take your paycheck, do a substandard job, and leave you with no alternative. Let's get the apparatchiks out of education.
 
Total nonsense. Your one track world view makes no sense in a modern (or even 18th century) world.

If you look at the nations with the best education, they all are government supported.
 
I don't see how we could get the government out of education completely. Private schools can select their students. How do we ensure that every child has access to an education? Or is that not a priority?
 
PhDeac said:
Those "dumbed down government tests" are usually constructed by outside private groups who are bankrolled by Republican legislatures who focus on "accountability" instead of giving students and teachers the resources to succeed. Republicans have become very adept at funneling taxpayer money into the private sector. Education is just one way.

Those students are scoring poorly because the competition is running schools.
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Regardless of scoring and testing, our public school system produces idiots (as shown on the other thread where we are not supposed to expect that someone can compute a car payment). The legislatures and testmakers may have plenty of blame at the macro level, but at the end of the day it is up to the people actually running the school to make sure the kids come away with basic skills. And that is feasible regardless of "resources", the same way it was feasible 100 years ago when there were minimal resources.

Note that I am on record as saying that education spending should be increased significantly and should be the largest part of our budget as a nation, well above defense. However, simply throwing money at something does not fix it at its most basic level, and absolving the actual school administrators for poor performance in lieu of some vast high-level conspiracy is a cop out. That is like blaming Wake's poor basketball performance on the NCAA's tournament set-up and revenue distribution. We suck primarily because we have bad players and a moron for a coach, not because we could be receving 50% more revenue.
 
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avalon said:
I don't see how we could get the government out of education completely. Private schools can select their students. How do we ensure that every child has access to an education? Or is that not a priority?
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Children in many government schools don't have access to a decent education now, despite huge amounts of taxpayer money spent on it. The EOG tests, which are failed by 33% of NC students and failed by more than 50% of minority students, require a student to get only about 50% of the questions right to pass. More than 50% of minority students cannot get more than half of the EOG test questions right.

http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/accountability/testing/reports/eograwscoreranges-math.pdf

It is time to end this failed experiment and give freedom a chance.
 
Your version of "freedom" guarantees failure. If only the people who have children of school age pay for it, schools will fall apart. There will not be enough to pay teachers, buy books or create facilities.

The only people who will succeed will be the rich. Your plan will devastate our economy, our national defense and our competitiveness in the world. It's mindboggling that you don't understand this.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Regardless of scoring and testing, our public school system produces idiots (as shown on the other thread where we are not supposed to expect that someone can compute a car payment). The legislatures and testmakers may have plenty of blame at the macro level, but at the end of the day it is up to the people actually running the school to make sure the kids come away with basic skills. And that is feasible regardless of "resources", the same way it was feasible 100 years ago when there were minimal resources.

Note that I am on record as saying that education spending should be increased significantly and should be the largest part of our budget as a nation, well above defense. However, simply throwing money at something does not fix it at its most basic level, and absolving the actual school administrators for poor performance in lieu of some vast high-level conspiracy is a cop out. That is like blaming Wake's poor basketball performance on the NCAA's tournament set-up and revenue distribution. We suck primarily because we have bad players and a moron for a coach, not because we could be receving 50% more revenue.
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Who is absolving school administrators?

Sure there are problems at the school and district level. Bloated bureaucracies is one. Of course, one reason there are bloated bureaucracies is to handle all the crap that comes down from the state, much of it forcing them to build curricula around standardized tests. By spending time teaching tests, teachers don't have the freedom to teach life skills (like calculating car payments) or developing the skills each student already has. We're forcing children into small boxes under the guise of accountability instead of getting the most talented people to come in and give students the chance to use their talents.
 
RJKarl said:
Your version of "freedom" guarantees failure. If only the people who have children of school age pay for it, schools will fall apart. There will not be enough to pay teachers, buy books or create facilities.

The only people who will succeed will be the rich. Your plan will devastate our economy, our national defense and our competitiveness in the world. It's mindboggling that you don't understand this.
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this
 
RJKarl said:
Your version of "freedom" guarantees failure. If only the people who have children of school age pay for it, schools will fall apart. There will not be enough to pay teachers, buy books or create facilities.

The only people who will succeed will be the rich. Your plan will devastate our economy, our national defense and our competitiveness in the world. It's mindboggling that you don't understand this.
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RJ, this is the typical reaction of a statist to a smaller government solution. People can indeed take care of themselves. The Catholic Church has educated many generations of students well despite having the millstone of property taxes to fund government schools in addition to their own schools hung around the necks of their parishioners. Freed from this millstone, they could do a much more effective job. With the money saved from eliminating the wasteful government schools there would be plenty for a wonderful education for all who can use it and for vocational or technical training for others.
 
Why would they get educated by private schools?
 
You'd have to buy property (Catholic churches already own their property). You'd have buy all the FFE. You'd have to have endowments to pay for teachers.

Under your program only those who have school aged kids would pay for them. That's not the case in Catholic schools.

What happens in rural areas or neighborhoods that can't afford your dream world concept?

What about the kids the schools don't want?

What about kids with special needs? Don't insult everyone's intelligence and pontificate to say they would be taken care of. Even now they need the feds to make up for the lack of local and state money.

It's staggering that you actually believe this drivel.
 
The invasion of government into our lives has now resulted in everyone asking how one can get along in the world if government people don't force other people to give one succour. In a free country of course people who can afford it will give their children the best, the most cost-effective education available. And of course in a free country deserving people who need charity will recieve charity. People of good faith make it possible for many students to attend WFU who otherwise could not do so. Faith-based instituions alone provide massive assistance to lower income children/scholars now and would do much, much more if the greedy government would leave everyone alone. You don't really need to worry about how free people would care for the people now forced into poverty by the government.
 
DreamOnDemOn said:
The invasion of government into our lives has now resulted in everyone asking how one can get along in the world if government people don't force other people to give one succour. In a free country of course people who can afford it will give their children the best, the most cost-effective education available. And of course in a free country deserving people who need charity will recieve charity. People of good faith make it possible for many students to attend WFU who otherwise could not do so. Faith-based instituions alone provide massive assistance to lower income children/scholars now and would do much, much more if the greedy government would leave everyone alone. You don't really need to worry about how free people would care for the people now forced into poverty by the government.
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You can't assume how people are going to spend their money when they're free to do so. Again, you're making my point. You would prefer to leave the education of the poor to the whims and fancies of the rich.
 
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