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America's White People Are In Deep Shit

TownieDeac said:
A better comparison than fast food is tobacco. Tobacco producers aren't the evil ones, the gubmint is!
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The difference is that tobacco companies are essentially selling direct to consumers. Big Pharma isn't.
 
Demonbeck said:
The difference is that tobacco companies are essentially selling direct to consumers. Big Pharma isn't.
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Right, it's much worse with pharma. The principal-agent problem means prices are ridiculous and the best interests of the seller are protected but the end-buyer are not.
 
TownieDeac said:
Right, it's much worse with pharma. The principal-agent problem means prices are ridiculous and the best interests of the seller are protected but the end-buyer are not.
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Again, I disagree. Cigarettes are not being prescribed to their users by doctors (for the most part.) Protections for the end-user with prescription drugs are found at the federal and state level as well as by their doctor and the pharmacy they choose to use - that's four levels of protection.

As for the price issue, if we were to truly open the markets for prescription drugs and allow for the reimportation of medicines (with prescription) from other countries, then you would likely see a decline in the cost of prescription drugs in the US (and potentially an increase in cost for prescription drugs around the world.)
 
i'm not sure which demonbeck position is more asinine

big pharma is a benevolent entity
savannah > charleston
 
Milhouse said:
i'm not sure which demonbeck position is more asinine

big pharma is a benevolent entity
savannah > charleston
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I never said they were a benevolent entity. They are businesses. Why should anyone be offended when they do what businesses do?

And Savannah is and always will be better than Charleston.
 
Demonbeck said:
Again, I disagree. Cigarettes are not being prescribed to their users by doctors (for the most part.) Protections for the end-user with prescription drugs are found at the federal and state level as well as by their doctor and the pharmacy they choose to use - that's four levels of protection.

As for the price issue, if we were to truly open the markets for prescription drugs and allow for the reimportation of medicines (with prescription) from other countries, then you would likely see a decline in the cost of prescription drugs in the US (and potentially an increase in cost for prescription drugs around the world.)
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Lol a market solution for everything! Competition within pharma is the reason we don't cure diseases that don't sell. And there's a reason we don't do free trade pharma. One or more of those "levels of protection" you speak of.

Anyway we are a mile apart on this. I don't think we share any common ground whatsoever. Alas.
 
TownieDeac said:
Lol a market solution for everything! Competition within pharma is the reason we don't cure diseases that don't sell. And there's a reason we don't do free trade pharma. One or more of those "levels of protection" you speak of.

Anyway we are a mile apart on this. I don't think we share any common ground whatsoever. Alas.
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What is funny about the reimportation argument is that the FDA claims it will add new counterfeit drugs into the market. Yet every hearing I know of that they've brought that up in, they use counterfeit drugs that they seized in America, not from outside.

Andy we aren't a mile apart. I agree that the system is broken. It's just a matter of how to fix it. The fix isn't in the regulation of business, it's in the enforcement of existing laws.
 
Demonbeck said:
The difference is that tobacco companies are essentially selling direct to consumers. Big Pharma isn't.
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Yeah, all that advertising is for the docs! When I take over health policy, job #1 is going to block these ads and overhaul how pharma works in this country.

Take a look at how pharma handles the hep c drug which runs close to $100k for a 3 month treatment. Do baby boomers all need to run to the doctor to get tested, most of whom are symptom free? And we wonder why insurance premiums increase so much.
 
Demonbeck said:
What is funny about the reimportation argument is that the FDA claims it will add new counterfeit drugs into the market. Yet every hearing I know of that they've brought that up in, they use counterfeit drugs that they seized in America, not from outside.

Andy we aren't a mile apart. I agree that the system is broken. It's just a matter of how to fix it. The fix isn't in the regulation of business, it's in the enforcement of existing laws.
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All the laws get neutered by the pharma lobby just doing their jobs. If you want that to stop you've gotta get money out of politics. Ain't happening.
 
TownieDeac said:
All the laws get neutered by the pharma lobby just doing their jobs. If you want that to stop you've gotta get money out of politics. Ain't happening.
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I didn't realize this was a fantasy thread here. I thought we were talking about real life stuff - as in things that could actually happen.
 
Demonbeck said:
I didn't realize this was a fantasy thread here. I thought we were talking about real life stuff - as in things that could actually happen.
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Right, so since we aren't getting money out of politics, and politicians and pharma are just doing their jobs, may I refer you back to the thread title.
 
TownieDeac said:
Right, so since we aren't getting money out of politics, and politicians and pharma are just doing their jobs, may I refer you back to the thread title.
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That's the problem with talking politics with people. They rarely look at the big picture. It's always, "this is how things should be done, why doesn't Congress see things the way I do? I have established an opinion and found a specific set of data to back it up. Geez, they must be morons. Oh well, I guess we're screwed." Instead of, "I have an opinion. How do my opponents think? How could I get them to acquiesce to some of my viewpoints?"
 
Demonbeck said:
That's the problem with talking politics with people. They rarely look at the big picture. It's always, "this is how things should be done, why doesn't Congress see things the way I do? I have established an opinion and found a specific set of data to back it up. Geez, they must be morons. Oh well, I guess we're screwed." Instead of, "I have an opinion. How do my opponents think? How could I get them to acquiesce to some of my viewpoints?"
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???

We've reasoned and argued our way to loggerheads, dude.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Beck, what is your job in the pharmaceutical industry?
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I have no ties to the pharmaceutical industry whatsoever - aside from being a consumer.

I just hate it when people take an entire industry to task for acting like an industry should. I hate it when people assume that adding new regulations on top of old ones that (apparently) aren't being enforced will result in a significant change.
 
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Was it bad when regulations took lead out of paint or asbestos out of insulation? Why are consumer protections a bad thing?
 
Come on, the market would have fixed that. Who cares if 100,000-500,000 or more people died. It's the cost of doing business.
 
TownieDeac said:
Was it bad when regulations took lead out of paint or asbestos out of insulation? Why are consumer protections a bad thing?
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Systems are in place to protect consumers in this case. They just aren't doing an effective job. That isn't the fault of the drug manufacturer, that is the fault of government. Don't advocate to punish big Pharma because our governments aren't providing the oversight they are supposed to be providing. Especially when punishing big Pharma is only going to further increase the cost of the drugs they manufacture.
 
Demonbeck said:
Systems are in place to protect consumers in this case. They just aren't doing an effective job. That isn't the fault of the drug manufacturer, that is the fault of government. Don't advocate to punish big Pharma because our governments aren't providing the oversight they are supposed to be providing. Especially when punishing big Pharma is only going to further increase the cost of the drugs they manufacture.
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we've already detailed on this thread how the oxy manufacturer was forced to pay $600MM in fines for falsifying data about the safety and efficacy of their drug

was this bad?
 
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