Biological male wins women’s cycling event

[Louis Gossett Jr]

Pretty sure there are people that dedicate their lives after years of training to study and help with these type of issues. It's clear that it's ELC, MD and therefore since this issue deals with scientific facts it's not his opinion and everything he says is grounded in reinforced studies facts. Since opinions have nothing to do with this.

 

[MysteryMen]

Or, likewise, when parents of intersex children "choose," with doctors' inputs, their newborn children's genders shortly after birth, which is actually pretty common.

I almost went there, but figured ELC would try to distinguish it, and I didn't want to distract him from the other topic that he's wrong about

 

[EatLeadCommie]

Well divorce has nothing to do with this "conversation" we are having in this thread, so that's one thing.

"Depriving them of everything they want is part of parenting..." is the real nonsense. That's how children learn to resent their parents, and in extreme cases, hate their parents. That's where the aforementioned communication plays a big role. Depriving them for deprivation's sake, because they don't know what they want, is an abysmal parenting technique. Authoritarian parenting is proven to be one of the least effective styles of parenting in developing grounded, happy children.

In many ways, a 4-5 year old knows what they feel better than a 7-11 year old child, or an adolescent, or a young adult. When you are 4-5, you have not developed the capability to lie convincingly. Things are black and white to young children. The research is still in early stages, but it's not as if a boy is saying, "I like to wear dresses and play with dolls." He will say, "I am a girl."

I know that it won't convince you in any way, shape, or form. But, still felt like someone had to try to set the record straight.

So if I deprive my kid of a soda or a candy bar, I am going to be resented and therefore am a crappy parent and an authoritarian parent? Well if that's the mentality, no wonder kids are spoiled these days. Maybe that's not what you were thinking, but I'm not talking about a situation where a parent is Hitler and denying every request a child makes without reason and just to be a dick. I'm talking about no you can't have another soda because your teeth will rot out, or no you can't play on the roof, or no you can't go play outside when it's dark. Similarly, as it applies in this case... "Daddy, I am a girl!" would be met with, "No, you're a boy," and not with, "OK, let's go see a gender therapist or whatever the hell they're called and get you diagnosed as trans because you really know what you're talking about as a 5 year old."

 

[Gooner]

So if I deprive my kid of a soda or a candy bar, I am going to be resented and therefore am a crappy parent and an authoritarian parent? Well if that's the mentality, no wonder kids are spoiled these days. Maybe that's not what you were thinking, but I'm not talking about a situation where a parent is Hitler and denying every request a child makes without reason and just to be a dick. I'm talking about no you can't have another soda because your teeth will rot out, or no you can't play on the roof, or no you can't go play outside when it's dark. Similarly, as it applies in this case... "Daddy, I am a girl!" would be met with, "No, you're a boy," and not with, "OK, let's go see a gender therapist or whatever the hell they're called and get you diagnosed as trans because you really know what you're talking about as a 5 year old."

That's moving the goalposts if I've ever seen it.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

So there are two separate issues here:

1. As far as a physical transformation, I'm pretty sure almost all doctors refuse to do gender reassignment surgery on people under 18 years old. So no issues there, you don't have to worry about parents ruining their kids that way

2. But dressing like someone of the gender that you identify with? How is that any different than kissing a guy to see if he gives you a boner? It's harmless, and if you feel differently later, reversible. In other words, if you think that you're identifying with a different gender, how can you know until you try to conform with that gender and see if it's what you're comfortable with? And if the kid says that this is how he's feeling, are the parents supposed to try to talk him out of it? How is that any different than saying parents should talk their children out of being gay?

Reversible, yes. Harmless, no. A lifetime of childhood memories affected by the fact that you played dress up. Not good.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

That's moving the goalposts if I've ever seen it.

I don't think so. I said that parents are supposed to deny kids what they want from time to time as part of parenting because parents know better than their kids. If you misread my statement about parents denying kids everything they want as literally denying everything at every opportunity, that's on you. Granted, I usually choose my words pretty carefully, but I'm not a complete dick.

 

[Deacs89]

So there are two separate issues here:

1. As far as a physical transformation, I'm pretty sure almost all doctors refuse to do gender reassignment surgery on people under 18 years old. So no issues there, you don't have to worry about parents ruining their kids that way

2. But dressing like someone of the gender that you identify with? How is that any different than kissing a guy to see if he gives you a boner? It's harmless, and if you feel differently later, reversible. In other words, if you think that you're identifying with a different gender, how can you know until you try to conform with that gender and see if it's what you're comfortable with? And if the kid says that this is how he's feeling, are the parents supposed to try to talk him out of it? How is that any different than saying parents should talk their children out of being gay?

lol holy fuck is this dumb. Ya try it out see how it fits. Pretty sure a gay boy or man doesn't need to kiss a guy to see if he gets a boner to tell him he is gay.

 

[DeaconSig]

lol holy fuck is this dumb. Ya try it out see how it fits. Pretty sure a gay boy or man doesn't need to kiss a guy to see if he gets a boner to tell him he is gay.

That was ELC's suggestion, not MM's. Yell at him.

 

[MysteryMen]

lol holy fuck is this dumb. Ya try it out see how it fits. Pretty sure a gay boy or man doesn't need to kiss a guy to see if he gets a boner to tell him he is gay.

I wasn't the one who said that. It was your boy ELC that did, I was just using his example.

 

[MysteryMen]

So if I deprive my kid of a soda or a candy bar, I am going to be resented and therefore am a crappy parent and an authoritarian parent? Well if that's the mentality, no wonder kids are spoiled these days. Maybe that's not what you were thinking, but I'm not talking about a situation where a parent is Hitler and denying every request a child makes without reason and just to be a dick. I'm talking about no you can't have another soda because your teeth will rot out, or no you can't play on the roof, or no you can't go play outside when it's dark. Similarly, as it applies in this case... "Daddy, I am a girl!" would be met with, "No, you're a boy," and not with, "OK, let's go see a gender therapist or whatever the hell they're called and get you diagnosed as trans because you really know what you're talking about as a 5 year old."

So do you reject the idea that being transgender is ever a real thing? Because that's the only scenario in which this post makes sense

 

[Gooner]

So do you reject the idea that being transgender is ever a real thing? Because that's the only scenario in which this post makes sense

He didn't answer when I asked. I doubt he will now.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

Here you go, boys. I guess I'm an idiot. http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children

 

[MysteryMen]

Here you go, boys. I guess I'm an idiot. http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children

I don't know if you're an idiot or not, but I do know that citing to an advocacy group that is founded on the core belief "that life begins at conception; and that the traditional family unit, headed by an opposite-sex couple, poses far fewer risk factors in the adoption and raising of children" doesn't make you any less of an idiot. Should we get Jerry Falwell's thoughts on things while we're at it?

If you'd like to answer the question about whether you think gender dysphoria is a real thing then we can continue the conversation. If not, then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Gooner]

Again, gender dysphoria =/= transgender. But there's more wrong with that article than just that incorrect equivalency.

First, that article's references include four articles that use the term "transsexual" which is almost obsolete in modern understanding of gender identity, is considered pejorative and is therefore not used in almost any modern respected, peer-reviewed research.

Second, four of the articles (not an exact overlap of the previous point) were published a decade or more ago. When doing research on topics regarding psychology or related matters, that is one of the biggest red flags to any so-called academic research. The old articles are used to support some of this article's biggest points, casting a huge cloud of doubt as to the validity of the research.

Third, the American College of Pediatricians was formed in protest of the American Academy of Pediatrics supporting adoption by gay couples. The ACP also has been denounced by numerous academic institutions and scholars for mischaracterizing scientific research to further their political agenda.

I know this was probably the best you could find in support of your ideology, but there is negligible value to the article and should not be considered good research.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

"Daddy, I am a girl!" would be met with, "No, you're a boy," and not with, "OK, let's go see a gender therapist...

Yikes. Anyways, were you more sure of your gender at 18 than you were at 5? I don't recall ever considering the question.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I would like to join in pointing out that the ACP is well established as being scientifically fraudulent. It's just a front for Christian conservative social politics. Consider that it's been established for 15 years and has 500 members, while the American Academy of Pediatricians (who the ACP is apeing) has over 60,000 members.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

Again, gender dysphoria =/= transgender. But there's more wrong with that article than just that incorrect equivalency.

First, that article's references include four articles that use the term "transsexual" which is almost obsolete in modern understanding of gender identity, is considered pejorative and is therefore not used in almost any modern respected, peer-reviewed research.

Second, four of the articles (not an exact overlap of the previous point) were published a decade or more ago. When doing research on topics regarding psychology or related matters, that is one of the biggest red flags to any so-called academic research. The old articles are used to support some of this article's biggest points, casting a huge cloud of doubt as to the validity of the research.

Third, the American College of Pediatricians was formed in protest of the American Academy of Pediatrics supporting adoption by gay couples. The ACP also has been denounced by numerous academic institutions and scholars for mischaracterizing scientific research to further their political agenda.

I know this was probably the best you could find in support of your ideology, but there is negligible value to the article and should not be considered good research.

In the interest of understanding this better, please explain the difference between gender dysphoria and transgender.

I'm aware of ACP's politics, and how they broke off because they felt the AAP was getting too political.

 

[TheReff]

We have girls now wanting to be in the Boy Scout so they can get to be Eagle Scouts, even though they have their own Girl Scouts. wow
We have transgender teen boy wrestling against the girls in Texas.
A Utah girl won a court case allowing her to wrestle against the boys
Now we need to let the boys play on the girls high school softball team and volleyball teams

Let's get it on!

 

[MysteryMen]

In the interest of understanding this better, please explain the difference between gender dysphoria and transgender.

I'm aware of ACP's politics, and how they broke off because they felt the AAP was getting too political.

1. This statement contradicts itself.

2. You knew this and you still cited them as a source in support of your position which you are keeping secret?

 

[MysteryMen]

We have girls now wanting to be in the Boy Scout so they can get to be Eagle Scouts, even though they have their own Girl Scouts. wow
We have transgender teen boy wrestling against the girls in Texas.
A Utah girl won a court case allowing her to wrestle against the boys
Now we need to let the boys play on the girls high school softball team and volleyball teams

Let's get it on!

I think you misunderstood the story. The child wrestling in Texas, while they see themselves as a boy, dress like a boy, and take testosterone, is biologically a girl. So that's why Texas made her wrestle girls. I thought that's what you and your ilk wanted? For biology to be the decisive factor?