• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Conditionally Pledging Money to the DC

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
No, Indiana was fucked. We were coming off an NCAA Tournament win with a shit-ton of recruiting momentum, and had some off-the-court incidents that would be considered relatively minor at almost any other high-major program and would probably be actively encouraged by Calipari. Yet, instead of finding someone to build on our many positives and just weed out the bad aspects or sweep them under the rug, we hired someone to pull that rug out from underneath our own feet.
Click to expand...

Then put Wellman's name on your refusal to pay $500 to the DC.

Relatively minor off-the-court incidents? Are you kidding me?
 
How many national titles have we won? Zero. In how many Final Fours have we competed? One.

Where in the hell did you guys get your Dukian sense of entitlement? In the history of college basketball, we are a never-hasbeen.

From listening to you guys, I can tell you one thing about our fanbase: This bunch of rich, coddled mama's boys doesn't know what it takes to EARN greatness.

Bzz has the work ethic and patience to get us back to prominence, but we can't even match his will? That is sad.

Seriously. Who do you people think we are going to hire if we shitcan Bzz?
 
DCDeac said:
I think it's perfectly fair to compare the programs. Indiana was fucked. We were fucked. They hired a terrific coach with a great resume and I wish we had done the same. We hired an unknown.
Click to expand...

"Unknown" in the sense that he was not on anyone's list because he was a bad coach. But, his ability and resume as a coach was certainly known. Let's not convince ourselves that we hired an "unknown" in the sense that he doesn't have enough background for us to know one way or another how this might turn out. He's far too old and experienced to be that sort of unknown.
 
blackgold said:
How many national titles have we won? Zero. In how many Final Fours have we competed? One.

Where in the hell did you guys get your Dukian sense of entitlement? In the history of college basketball, we are a never-hasbeen.

From listening to you guys, I can tell you one thing about our fanbase: This bunch of rich, coddled mama's boys doesn't know what it takes to EARN greatness.

Bzz has the work ethic and patience to get us back to prominence, but we can't even match his will? That is sad.

Seriously. Who do you people think we are going to hire if we shitcan Bzz?
Click to expand...

The lectro of basketball?
 
Last edited:
DCDeac said:
Then put Wellman's name on your refusal to pay $500 to the DC.

Relatively minor off-the-court incidents? Are you kidding me?
Click to expand...

At the time, we had a he-said-she-said bathroom BJ with a groupie and one of our role players in which the University did not decide to issue punishment. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, that is relatively minor. At Duke, that gets you a scholarship.
 
DCDeac said:
I have seen almost no evidence that [Redacted] is the right person for this job.

There are two things that, up until the NC State debacle (trying to remind myself it's just one game, even UNC can get trounced when everything goes south), give me some glimmer of hope.

1) I really like the incoming class. Not just skill wise, but I enjoy reading their interviews, reactions from other coaches about them, Moto plays near me in DC and looks awesome, etc.

2) I think we've looked better than last year with what I can only describe as a very ACC-talent challenged starting 5.

I certainly don't like [Redacted]'s demeanor, his fan/student interactions, his goofy style, etc. Even though I see progress I can't believe how limited it is. I don't see much evidence that he relates well to players.

I remain hopefull that [Redacted] will take us to an NCAA tourney in year 4, putting us in a position to hand the program off to an up-and-comer or big name coach.
Click to expand...

Good and fair post. I can disagree with some of it, but is a fair deconstruction.
 
bobknightfan said:
Were you out of the country during the 2005-06 & 2006-07 seasons? Those were Skip's last two teams. They finished last (12th) and next to last (11th) in the conference.....with an 8-24 ACC record.
Click to expand...

That's true, but we still had fun players to watch like Justin Gray.
 
YES!!! Losing with fun players is much preferable to losing with boring players.
 
DCDeac said:
I have seen almost no evidence that [Redacted] is the right person for this job.

There are two things that, up until the NC State debacle (trying to remind myself it's just one game, even UNC can get trounced when everything goes south), give me some glimmer of hope.

1) I really like the incoming class. Not just skill wise, but I enjoy reading their interviews, reactions from other coaches about them, Moto plays near me in DC and looks awesome, etc.

2) I think we've looked better than last year with what I can only describe as a very ACC-talent challenged starting 5.

I certainly don't like [Redacted]'s demeanor, his fan/student interactions, his goofy style, etc. Even though I see progress I can't believe how limited it is. I don't see much evidence that he relates well to players.

I remain hopefull that [Redacted] will take us to an NCAA tourney in year 4, putting us in a position to hand the program off to an up-and-comer or big name coach.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I also agree that it would be even more damaging to the program to fire him even with as much as I hate the state of things right now.

That said, I don't have a problem with criticizing Wellman for what I believe to be a poor hire, and I don't have a problem with criticizing Bz when he does something I disagree with. These are really the things that caused all of the division in the fanbase - some think that to do them means one is against Wake Forest or not giving the guy a fair shot.
 
Colonel Angus said:
YES!!! Losing with fun players is much preferable to losing with boring players.
Click to expand...

Based on the number of fans in the gym, it was.

Unlike Bzz, fans saw Skip and knew we wouldn't be down long. He instilled confidence and you knew he had the ability to right the ship, so you cheered for the good things ahead. Now, not so much...
 
RacerDeac said:
Based on the number of fans in the gym, it was.

Unlike Bzz, fans saw Skip and knew we wouldn't be down long. He instilled confidence and you knew he had the ability to right the ship, so you cheered for the good things ahead. Now, not so much...
Click to expand...

Thats true. We still filled the Joel most of the time even when Wake was down during Skip's final seasons. Today? Not so much. We are slowly returning to the days of Odom ball when it comes to the atmosphere.
 
greekdeac2011 said:
Thats true. We still filled the Joel most of the time even when Wake was down during Skip's final seasons. Today? Not so much. We are slowly returning to the days of Odom ball when it comes to the atmosphere.
Click to expand...

Sanity. Thank you. The atmosphere of the program is hard to describe, but it's certainly relevant. Something happened during the summer of 2010 that killed the program.
 
The more I think about the past three years and all of the changes that have occurred in each of the programs at Wake, the more I buy this 'culture change' motivation. At first, I thought it was nonsense, but there is a lot of evidence to demonstrate otherwise.
 
2010 season attendance was higher than the 2005 attendance per the NCAA numbers...

We certainly did not fill the stands for every game Prosser coached. More revisionist history.
 
God rest Skip's soul, but you know what premature death does for reputations.

DCDeac said:
2010 season attendance was higher than the 2005 attendance per the NCAA numbers...

We certainly did not fill the stands for every game Prosser coached. More revisionist history.
Click to expand...
 
OGBDeacon07 said:
Link/numbers for reference?
Click to expand...

Questioned for good reason. Blindly copied a blog entry. Going by the NCAA site, I'm right about us not coming close to "filling the Joel" during Prosser's last year at 10k/game. [Redacted]'s first year was just over 9k a game. Both are bad.

The 2004 and 2005 seasons averaged around 14k.
 
bobknightfan said:
There is a lot of revisionist history on this board. In his entire career at WF, Skip played in exactly one Sweet Sixteen game....and lost it.

As a matter of fact, I think the argument could be made that Skip's last great recruiting class (supposedly great, anyway) actually started the decline in WF basketball.
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume you're talking about ATT

1. AFA played up to his expectations, and did alot for his team.
2. Tony Woods was only a blight on the program for a short summer.
3. Ty Walker might have been a team cancer at 1 point, but he certainly isn't the first highly recruited bust.

IMO, this is what turned the program down:
1. Dino's inability to recruit a point guard to replace Jeff and Ish
2. The timing of Dino's firing/Tony Wood's scandal
3. The lack of any veteran talent or presence on our team last season, which is commonly known in recruiting as a "bridge year".
 
bobknightfan said:
There is a lot of revisionist history on this board. In his entire career at WF, Skip played in exactly one Sweet Sixteen game....and lost it.

As a matter of fact, I think the argument could be made that Skip's last "great" recruiting class (supposedly "great", anyway) actually started the decline in WF basketball that we are in today.
Click to expand...

You weren't a fan during those years, how would you know anything about the Prosser era? Prosser's run and gun basketball would've blown any Tacy team out of the gym. Or didn't you know that it was Prosser that got us to no. 1 for the first time in school history?
 
DCDeac said:
Questioned for good reason. Blindly copied a blog entry. Going by the NCAA site, I'm right about us not coming close to "filling the Joel" during Prosser's last year at 10k/game. [Redacted]'s first year was just over 9k a game. Both are bad.

The 2004 and 2005 seasons averaged around 14k.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. Your first post did not. Thanks for double-checking.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top