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Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC

Clemson and FSU don't add any markets. I don't see UF and USC allowing the move to the SEC. They could probably get UGA on board to block it as well.
 
dcnelso said:
Bad coaching hires and letting legacy coaches hang on for too long really led to the downfall of the traditional powers. Bowden and Beamer both probably needed to retire 5 years sooner than they did. It worked out now for Clemson as it led to Dabo, but Clemson let Tommy Bowden coach for 10 years averaging 6-7 wins a year. There was just a lot of complacency with ACC ADs.

To your second point on recruiting, I think its spot on. ESPN is going to pump the SEC even more than they do now and SEC games will dominate all of the top TV windows. With NIL, a 5* kid is going to go to an SEC school vs. Clemson, FSU, Miami because of the extra media attention.

I don't really see any way for the ACC to survive. Notre Dame provides maybe a small lifeline for another decade, but the money disparity is just too much to continue in perpetuity. The grant of rights and the TV contract into the 2030s is a gift and a curse right now. ESPN has no reason to renegotiate it, but with today's news I do think Clemson and FSU would be 100% trying to get into the SEC right now without being locked in, along with the BIG probably raiding UNC, Duke, UVA.
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Oh no! We are all doomed. Suddenly, Starkville, Mississippi and Fayetteville, Arkansas are going to be attractive destinations for recruits.

Guess we should just pull the plug on the conference and ask for a bid into the Big South.
 
Pilchard said:
Oh no! We are all doomed. Suddenly, Starkville, Mississippi and Fayetteville, Arkansas are going to be attractive destinations for recruits.

Guess we should just pull the plug on the conference and ask for a bid into the Big South.
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I generally agree with you that folks overreact to the potential downside of any news here, but then again we have been WFU fans for a long time, so it's understandable.

In this case, it's pretty binary. ACC survives, we are in a good conference. ACC does not survive, we are not.
 
deacondamo said:
Clemson and FSU don't add any markets. I don't see UF and USC allowing the move to the SEC. They could probably get UGA on board to block it as well.
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There's rumored to be a gentlemen's agreement and Georgia is already on board with USC, UF, and UK in blocking Clemson, FSU, Ga Tech, and Louisville.
 
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BiffTannen said:
There's rumored to be a gentlemen's agreement and Georgia is already on board with USC, UF, and UK in blocking Clemson, FSU, Ga Tech, and Louisville.
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I'm sure that is/was the case before this latest move. The gentleman's agreement clearly didn't work in A&M favor. I think ESPN is driving a lot of this realignment with the tv deals on the table, so I'm sure if ESPN floated a potential number high enough for a move that included Clemson, FSU, Miami then Greg Sankey would really push everyone to agree to it.

I don't see Clemson moving to the SEC. The only way I see that occurring would be for the BIG to raid the ACC first and the conference to basically dissolve completely, and the chances of that are very very low. I just think the ACC is stuck on the path of being at best the number 3 conference and way behind the SEC and BIG who will dominate with the money disparity.
 
SEC, SEC, SEC...

As much as everyone praises the SEC and says how amazing the conference is, more than half the football programs in that league have floundered by any definition over the time when the conference has been making money hand over fist.

Who are the ascending programs in that conference? Bama no doubt is the best program in college football. LSU and UGA have had their moments in recent years. I guess A&M is somewhat relevant.

After that, then what? Has Bama's success helped Tennesssee? That program has fallen off a cliff.


What about Arkansas? They haven't played a relevant football game in a decade, and the biggest news out of Fayetteville was this:

GZLFDWUDT4I6DMB2PMX6JHZW4U.jpg


S. Carolina? The program has been mess since the early Spurrier years.

Mizzou? Can't remember the last time the Tigers were relevant except for having a gay DE.

Ole Miss is best known for a coach that was addicted to porn phone sites and the worst defense in Power Conference history under Lane.

Auburn? They can't get over that they will never be as a good as Bama.

Vandy? Nothing needs to be said.

Kentucky? Guess they have improved from football being an afterthought to mediocre.

Mississippi State? Need more cowbell, but has watching Miss. State has never been appointment television?

Got to hand it to these SEC nothing-burgers for somehow riding Bama's ridiculous success to create the misimpression that the conference is filled with amazing programs. It's not. All but the top schools in that league can't get out of their own way. Not talking about getting blown out by Bama (which they do), I'm talking about losing to South Alabama, Troy (over LSU in 2017), GA State (over TN in 2019), Toledo, Citadel, App. State, UNLV, San Jose State, Western Kentucky (26 point win over Arkansas in 2019).

Hard to believe, but there are a ton of programs not in the SEC that are in far better shape now and will always be in far better shape than those programs. Again, Bama is the gold standard, but it's not like being a member of the SEC means that a member school: a) can run of competent football program; b) is relevant in college football; c) is likely to have future success.
 
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Pilchard said:
SEC, SEC, SEC...

As much as everyone praises the SEC and says how amazing the conference is, more than half the football programs in that league have floundered by any definition over the time when the conference has been making money hand over fist.

Who are the ascending programs in that conference? Bama no doubt is the best program in college football. LSU and UGA have had their moments in recent years. I guess A&M is somewhat relevant.

After that, then what? Has Bama's success helped Tennesssee? That program has fallen off a cliff.


What about Arkansas? They haven't played a relevant football game in a decade, and the biggest news out of Fayetteville was this:

GZLFDWUDT4I6DMB2PMX6JHZW4U.jpg


S. Carolina? The program has been mess since the early Spurrier years.

Mizzou? Can't remember the last time the Tigers were relevant except for having a gay DE.

Ole Miss is best known for a coach that was addicted to porn phone sites and the worst defense in Power Conference history under Lane.

Auburn? They can't get over that they will never be as a good as Bama.

Vandy? Nothing needs to be said.

Kentucky? Guess they have improved from football being an afterthought to mediocre.

Mississippi State? Need more cowbell, but has watching Miss. State has never been appointment television.

Got to hand it to these SEC nothing-burgers for somehow riding Bama's ridiculous success to create the misimpression that the conference is filled with amazing programs. It's not. All but the top schools in that league can't get out of their own way. Not talking about getting blown out by Bama (which they do), I'm talking about losing to South Alabama, Troy (over LSU in 2017), GA State (over TN in 2019), Toledo, Citadel, App. State, UNLV, San Jose State, Western Kentucky (26 point win over Arkansas in 2019).

Hard to believe, but there are a ton of programs not in the SEC that are in far better shape now and will always be in far better shape than those programs. Again, Bama is the gold standard, but it's not like being a member of the SEC means that a member school: a) can run of competent football program; b) is relevant in college football; c) is likely to have future success.
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Gators are pretty good.

At least good enough to warrant a mention.
 
I mean, Auburn won the National Championship 11 years ago.
 
FSU won their 3rd, 8 years ago, but apparently, Clemson is the only team in the ACC with a program.
 
SC DEAC said:
Thank god we were good enough in basketball all those years ago that other schools who liked basketball joined with us to form a conference. Being a charter member of the ACC is probably the best thing to ever happen to WFU, despite the teeth gnashing of the moment.
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The ACC formed because of football.
 
We also need to consider the possibility that no one here has mentioned, perhaps even contemplated:

Wake decides in a decade to cut football entirely and go the UChicago route. Although it seems unthinkable to us now, it is not entirely out of line with our other academic decisions which were industry leading at the time like move to needs-blind admission, no SAT, etc.
 
Pilchard said:
SEC, SEC, SEC...

As much as everyone praises the SEC and says how amazing the conference is, more than half the football programs in that league have floundered by any definition over the time when the conference has been making money hand over fist.

Who are the ascending programs in that conference? Bama no doubt is the best program in college football. LSU and UGA have had their moments in recent years. I guess A&M is somewhat relevant.

After that, then what? Has Bama's success helped Tennesssee? That program has fallen off a cliff.


What about Arkansas? They haven't played a relevant football game in a decade, and the biggest news out of Fayetteville was this:

GZLFDWUDT4I6DMB2PMX6JHZW4U.jpg


S. Carolina? The program has been mess since the early Spurrier years.

Mizzou? Can't remember the last time the Tigers were relevant except for having a gay DE.

Ole Miss is best known for a coach that was addicted to porn phone sites and the worst defense in Power Conference history under Lane.

Auburn? They can't get over that they will never be as a good as Bama.

Vandy? Nothing needs to be said.

Kentucky? Guess they have improved from football being an afterthought to mediocre.

Mississippi State? Need more cowbell, but has watching Miss. State has never been appointment television?

Got to hand it to these SEC nothing-burgers for somehow riding Bama's ridiculous success to create the misimpression that the conference is filled with amazing programs. It's not. All but the top schools in that league can't get out of their own way. Not talking about getting blown out by Bama (which they do), I'm talking about losing to South Alabama, Troy (over LSU in 2017), GA State (over TN in 2019), Toledo, Citadel, App. State, UNLV, San Jose State, Western Kentucky (26 point win over Arkansas in 2019).

Hard to believe, but there are a ton of programs not in the SEC that are in far better shape now and will always be in far better shape than those programs. Again, Bama is the gold standard, but it's not like being a member of the SEC means that a member school: a) can run of competent football program; b) is relevant in college football; c) is likely to have future success.
Click to expand...

This is 100% spot on.
 
wakephan09 said:
We also need to consider the possibility that no one here has mentioned, perhaps even contemplated:

Wake decides in a decade to cut football entirely and go the UChicago route. Although it seems unthinkable to us now, it is not entirely out of line with our other academic decisions which were industry leading at the time like move to needs-blind admission, no SAT, etc.
Click to expand...

I don’t think this is even a remote possibility. UChicago did that a looooong time ago before today’s media world.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
I've seen the bi-coastal superleague theorized about by people, but honestly don't understand the practicality of that. Jesus, travel expenses would go through the roof, starting times would skewed, etc. If the point is to basically have an agreement to play a CCG but still have de facto separate leagues apart from that, then I don't see much advantage to that.

ND is going to either sink or swim. The writing is on the wall. They need to hop on board. Have seen it rumored that PSU is unhappy with the Big 10 (maybe too much competition for top pedo school) and might be amenable to an ACC invitation. That would certainly be interesting.
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ACC and PAC-12 schools could merge and not even play each other. It wouldn’t be more than one cross country football game a year and no more than usual for basketball and other sports. It’s for TV purposes.

Kent said:
I generally agree with you that folks overreact to the potential downside of any news here, but then again we have been WFU fans for a long time, so it's understandable.

In this case, it's pretty binary. ACC survives, we are in a good conference. ACC does not survive, we are not.
Click to expand...

Yep. I’m not gloom and doom about Wake. I’m pessimistic about the ACC. Swofford and company couldn’t figure out how to build on Clemson’s success the way the SEC capitalized on Bama’s success.
 
deacdixieboy said:
I don’t think this is even a remote possibility. UChicago did that a looooong time ago before today’s media world.
Click to expand...
While I don't think it is likely, I can see it being a possibility if wake loses badly the conference realignment game and ends up in a place where football isn't helping the reputation of the University.

Maybe another possible scenario is the big four conferences leaving the NCAA and for some reason we choose not to follow. Or are not given the opportunity.

Not saying it's gonna happen, but worth thinking about
 
Pilchard said:
SEC, SEC, SEC...

As much as everyone praises the SEC and says how amazing the conference is, more than half the football programs in that league have floundered by any definition over the time when the conference has been making money hand over fist.

Got to hand it to these SEC nothing-burgers for somehow riding Bama's ridiculous success to create the misimpression that the conference is filled with amazing programs. It's not. All but the top schools in that league can't get out of their own way. Not talking about getting blown out by Bama (which they do), I'm talking about losing to South Alabama, Troy (over LSU in 2017), GA State (over TN in 2019), Toledo, Citadel, App. State, UNLV, San Jose State, Western Kentucky (26 point win over Arkansas in 2019).

Hard to believe, but there are a ton of programs not in the SEC that are in far better shape now and will always be in far better shape than those programs. Again, Bama is the gold standard, but it's not like being a member of the SEC means that a member school: a) can run of competent football program; b) is relevant in college football; c) is likely to have future success.
Click to expand...

So much this. Excellent post.

You'd think every SEC graduate runs a successful car dealership with unlimited funds to pour into their SEC alma mater, and UNC, Duke, Wake, UVa are graduating assistant managers at the Auto Zone. The difference between the SEC and the ACC is the willingness to buy recruits - previously under the table, now with NIL above the table. With NIL, the ACC should also be willing. The ACC schools should be very capable to adjust to the new landscape if they choose. We already know UNC is.

We're talking about Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana here, people. These are the folks who won't get a free Covid vaccine. And we're afraid to compete with them? If Saban dies or leaves, Alabama returns to the field just like FSU, VT, Miami did after they lost their legendary coaches. No one should be making long term plans around Nick Saban.
 
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