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Culture Question

Always surprised how misunderstood culture change is. If we could recruit 5 josh Howards and 5 Chris pauls - we would. Chippiness on te court was not ari and tabb and walker and jtt and woods and teague's problem. Were they a part of wake campus life? Were they there for the wake education?

Howard and cp3 were. This group seems to be looking from the outside in. Post skip we had a lot of guys you couldn't say that.
 
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Anybody who thinks Moto's elbow wasn't clearly intentional is just a homer. I think some have misguided opinions about what toughness is. Rj, I think it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask based on the bogus culture B S put forth by Wellman and others. You disagree, so be it.

You are delusional. I don't doubt that Moto had his elbows up in an attempt to box out and protect his space, but the little freshman guy from BC ran full bore into the elbow. Moto was in no way swinging his arms (like CJ was). Had Rahon had a little more body control and been watching where he was going, he could easily have avoided the elbow. I thought that was a terrible call. That is what happens when a little guy goes flying into the lane out of control.
 
well-stated, I've been making the same point in several different ways for quite some time but - as I'm sure people have noticed - there are some really slow learners on these boards
 
Always surprised how misunderstood culture change is. If we could recruit 5 josh Howards and 5 Chris pauls - we would. Chippiness on te court was not ari and tabb and walker and jtt and woods and teague's problem. We're they a part of wake campus life? We're they there for the wake education?

Howard and cp3 were. This group seems to be looking from the outside in. Post skip we had a lot of guys you couldn't say that.
When you say the phrase "a part of campus life" what does that mean to you? Do you think anyone really gives a shit whether the basketball players go to shag on the mag or eat at Shorty's?
 
this is dumb. on the court is one thing. heck, Chris Paul is the meanest dude in the building when he's on the court.
 
When you say the phrase "a part of campus life" what does that mean to you? Do you think anyone really gives a shit whether the basketball players go to shag on the mag or eat at Shorty's?

Jaybone definitely has a few years on me and I wouldn't even pretend to know whats going on in campus life. Guess it goes with the territory of having an answer for everything...
 
When you say the phrase "a part of campus life" what does that mean to you? Do you think anyone really gives a shit whether the basketball players go to shag on the mag or eat at Shorty's?

Yes. Not in the condescending way you put it, but yes, I think it does matter to Wellman. Student athlete to him has a very specific definition. Oddly, football is a little different in that there are 20 man classes which is like a frat pledge year. Those guys can hang out with each other and pick up a dozen or so campus non-football friends via osmosis. Hoops doesn't have that luxury. I think Wellman is really wanting Bzd and staff to find kids that are mostly comfortable on campus or have a drive/will to do so.

Mugsy Bogues did not fit at Wake his first two years and was practically invisible. He had to work like mad with the tutors. But he worked his ass off. Got into a little trouble sophmore year when I was a frosh, but I saw him on campus a lot last two years (and played a lot of pickup with him!).

Jamie Skeen is a great example of a kid that probably made Wellman reconsider. Great kid, worked hard, but never ever felt comfortable, struggled in class, went in front of the discipline board, all that. The kid was definitely not a bad apple, but was he a kid we should have recruited? Arguable both ways, but tack on idiots like Walker and Tabb and bingo bango boom.

CP3 and Tim Duncan were men about campus. Ish ditto. Big E was comfortable. All those guys. From what I heard, James Johnson was fine that way. He just wasn't a student. But Teague never really made an attempt, again, from what I hear. In my day, all athletes lived in their own dorms and Wellman changed that for incoming frosh athletes, so he's always had that in mind.
 
Jaybone definitely has a few years on me and I wouldn't even pretend to know whats going on in campus life. Guess it goes with the territory of having an answer for everything...

WTF are you talking about? I have no answers for hockey, tennis, golf, baseball so I never comment on those threads. Cars, I know nada. Football, I'm okay, but I only comment with strong opinions on hoops and Wellman. That's basically it.
 
Yes. Not in the condescending way you put it, but yes, I think it does matter to Wellman. Student athlete to him has a very specific definition. Oddly, football is a little different in that there are 20 man classes which is like a frat pledge year. Those guys can hang out with each other and pick up a dozen or so campus non-football friends via osmosis. Hoops doesn't have that luxury. I think Wellman is really wanting Bzd and staff to find kids that are mostly comfortable on campus or have a drive/will to do so.

Mugsy Bogues did not fit at Wake his first two years and was practically invisible. He had to work like mad with the tutors. But he worked his ass off. Got into a little trouble sophmore year when I was a frosh, but I saw him on campus a lot last two years (and played a lot of pickup with him!).

Jamie Skeen is a great example of a kid that probably made Wellman reconsider. Great kid, worked hard, but never ever felt comfortable, struggled in class, went in front of the discipline board, all that. The kid was definitely not a bad apple, but was he a kid we should have recruited? Arguable both ways, but tack on idiots like Walker and Tabb and bingo bango boom.

CP3 and Tim Duncan were men about campus. Ish ditto. Big E was comfortable. All those guys. From what I heard, James Johnson was fine that way. He just wasn't a student. But Teague never really made an attempt, again, from what I hear. In my day, all athletes lived in their own dorms and Wellman changed that for incoming frosh athletes, so he's always had that in mind.

Lots of our black student athletes aren't "men about campus" because our school is even more lily-white then they expected when they signed. I think i've heard the phrase "not enough black people" about a dozen times from athlete friends. If Wellman is really so involved in the social aspect of our recruits personalities then he's psychotic on top of being inept. I don't think he is though, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
Lots of our black student athletes aren't "men about campus" because our school is even more lily-white then they expected when they signed. I think i've heard the phrase "not enough black people" about a dozen times from athlete friends. If Wellman is really so involved in the social aspect of our recruits personalities then he's psychotic on top of being inept. I don't think he is though, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I agree with all of this. Seems like Wellman should have a plan for increasing Wake's racial and socioeconomic diversity if he's going to demand that players be "men about campus."

When I was in HS, I was tight with a lot of the basketball players and I heard echoes of MDMH's post often.
 
WTF are you talking about? I have no answers for hockey, tennis, golf, baseball so I never comment on those threads. Cars, I know nada. Football, I'm okay, but I only comment with strong opinions on hoops and Wellman. That's basically it.

Now, jb, don't be so modest. We *both* know your areas of expertise extend far beyond hoops and Wellman!

toss-salad.jpg
 
I agree with all of this. Seems like Wellman should have a plan for increasing Wake's racial and socioeconomic diversity if he's going to demand that players be "men about campus."

When I was in HS, I was tight with a lot of the basketball players and I heard echoes of MDMH's post often.

Of course. It was even worse in my time, late 80s. Hell, I had a problem with it. But that didn't prevent a bunch of football players from being involved in campus life, both black and white athletes had that challenge to an extent, obviously black athletes more so, but that's why they changed policy and forced incoming frosh athletes to live in regular dorms.

But while Wake is less white than 25 years ago, it is not a hotbed of diversity. I think the idea is that college graduates of all colors must learn to feel comfortable with folks of all colors, most religions, and gay/straight stuff for when they have jobs or are applying for them after school. Because the world is multi-ethnic, multi-religious and gay-straight and all Fortune 500 companies reflect that.

Thus, if you hole up with your few boys, go to class and come back and don't interact with other students, it's a red flag.

And by men about campus, I didn't mean the mayor of the school the way CP3 just about was.
 
Thus, if you hole up with your few boys, go to class and come back and don't interact with other students, it's a red flag.
That sounds like a pretty common situation. I honestly think you're off track here.
 
Are you arguing that you don't think Wellman means that with culture change? or are you arguing that students in general do that?

I don't think Wellman had a problem with how Ari and Tabb and Walker et cetera put on their socks. Pretty sure they put their socks on the same way Ish did. And it wasn't just solely their attitude on court or at practice. It was the whole enchilada.

I'll put it this way. When we lost to Cleveland State, Teague never came back to campus. He went straight into ensuring he was a mid 1st round pick mode. I don't think that sat well with Wellman at all. I call that a student athlete problem. If you have dozens of friends on campus, you are bummed you lost that game for yourself but also your school, your friends, etc... If you have been playing for draft position all season, then that continues to be your focus.

And I love Teague, I really do, but I sensed that that was the tipping point.
 
Are you arguing that you don't think Wellman means that with culture change? or are you arguing that students in general do that?

I don't think Wellman had a problem with how Ari and Tabb and Walker et cetera put on their socks. Pretty sure they put their socks on the same way Ish did. And it wasn't just solely their attitude on court or at practice. It was the whole enchilada.

I'll put it this way. When we lost to Cleveland State, Teague never came back to campus. He went straight into ensuring he was a mid 1st round pick mode. I don't think that sat well with Wellman at all. I call that a student athlete problem. If you have dozens of friends on campus, you are bummed you lost that game for yourself but also your school, your friends, etc... If you have been playing for draft position all season, then that continues to be your focus.

And I love Teague, I really do, but I sensed that that was the tipping point.

Yes, I am arguing that our supposed Culture change isn't what you seem to think it is. I heard very recently that Jeff Teague was undecided for a good portion of that semester, and actually liked being at Wake Forest. Players who are good enough for the NBA are always going to have one foot out the door, there's nothing wrong with that. There are far more important differences between CP3 and Jeff Teague then their college social lives.
 
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It was hard to tell if Moto's elbow was intentional still IMO. He does bring the elbow up but he's also clearly looking at the ball when he makes contact with the guy. Good call either way I think by the ref.

The CJ call pisses me off. I hate that rule so much. The guy has his hands on the ball and is reaching in while CJ is trying to grab the rebound. CJ clears out and the guy is called for the reach. The elbow clear out is something that everyone should know not to do by now, but for it to be a flagrant foul is over the top IMO.
 
It was hard to tell if Moto's elbow was intentional still IMO. He does bring the elbow up but he's also clearly looking at the ball when he makes contact with the guy. Good call either way I think by the ref.

The CJ call pisses me off. I hate that rule so much. The guy has his hands on the ball and is reaching in while CJ is trying to grab the rebound. CJ clears out and the guy is called for the reach. The elbow clear out is something that everyone should know not to do by now, but for it to be a flagrant foul is over the top IMO.

rain-man1-qfbpix.jpg
 
Black basketball players don't even get involved in fraternity fights which is just unacceptable.
 
Moon has really been hammering one of the twins with Rain Man pics. I get a chuckle.
 
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