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Culture Question

DirkTheDeac said:
I think the culture change Wellman was thinking about was the seeming lack of desire from some of our NBA bound players when the season started to go downhill. He probably saw Hoosiers for the fifth time on TNT and equated Bzz with Gene Hackman. I don't think the Bzz choice was difficult for him at all. He was certain Bzz was going to come in, chase off the malcontents, run the kids around some chairs, insist on three passes before a shot and viola... we are in the final four.
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Funny. Pos rep
 
jaybone said:
Then all opinions are worthless. You opinion of my opinion is worthless. But thanks for clarifying. I get where you are coming from, the dickishneas angle. Or the "you suck" argument
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If any of those players had been successful on other teams then maybe you could believe that their collective chemistry was what held them down here, but their tangible skills have been measured and found wanting, so there's no real purpose in hypothesizing a different reason for their failure.
 
jaybone said:
Then all opinions are worthless.
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Not really the case. I attribute quite a bit of validity to the opinions of posters who have their names in green light, just as I attribute quite a bit of validity to you and bkf when it comes to talking about Carl Tacy. BabyDeac, KVegas, TITSWF, peg/tigerswood for recruiting etc. are all opinions that I privilege when it comes to getting beyond simple empirical observations (watching games in person and/or on television + reading journalistic accounts).

On-court chemistry is a pretty subjective measure, man. [Redacted]'s team has technically had it, but he's thrown out just as many lineups that haven't meshed as those that have (at least in my opinion). Jeff Teague and Ish Smith/James Johnson and Al-Farouq Aminu fostered bad on-court chemistry, but so does Chase as the SF in a three-guard lineup. You know? So does designating guys like Madison and Moto as the late game FT shooter.

Additionally, if all of the guys liking each other = chemistry, then there was chemistry before [Redacted] and during his early rosters. Your basis for these guys being buddy-buddy, then, is just AD propaganda and interviews published on Blogger So Dear, rather than any inside knowledge.

[Redacted]'s 2012 class is seven people large, so there is very little overlap between these guys and the older, departed players. Yet, I watched those older guys play a lot and didn't see Daniel or Chase having trouble getting along with Carson, Tony, and Anthony. Furthermore, CJ was close with Ari when he was on campus and has seemingly had (to any of our levels of access) good relationships with all of the "problem players" that have rolled through campus.

I think you're conflating those two formulations to suggest that guys having fun on court (plus your perspective developed by AD-produced materials and BSD content), occasionally executing, and liking each other means that they're better people (aka "culture") than the old guard. Remember, our preseason in 2010-2011, both from internal expectations and external hype, was pretty optimistic despite what would come later...

I'm not sure that's a fair characterization to our past guys, our present guys, or the coach and AD who made culture into such a big deal in the first place.

ETA: tl;dr: When you don't define a concept, it becomes very easy to fabricate a crisis of culture or chemistry, when in fact, guys are just not reacting well to a coach who clearly isn't of the "player's" variety.
 
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I know nothing about tacy and have never posted that I did. Therefore your well thought out rim job is worthless!

Actually other than that tacy body punch its a fair criticism of my posts and opinions. I do think I have brought up some of the fuckup a you referenced (Moto getting he inbounds pass) with I before most though

Despite my rep as a bzd latherer I'm not. And fuck if I know where you pulled tacy
 
jaybone said:
I know nothing about tacy and have never posted that I did. Therefore your well thought out rim job is worthless!

Actually other than that tacy body punch its a fair criticism of my posts and opinions. I do think I have brought up some of the fuckup a you referenced (Moto getting he inbounds pass) with I before most though

Despite my rep as a bzd latherer I'm not. And fuck if I know where you pulled tacy
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It's been a long day...
 
Strickland33 said:
The teams are different, but Dino, Skip, and Dave all managed to win with guys who had character issues.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that while all three won with guys that had character issues Skip was the only one of those three that didn't just win with those players, but also actively made them better people. I know I'm going to sound crazy for saying this but wasn't it only just a short time after Skip died that Josh Howard went off the deep end and started saying a bunch of crazy shit? He stayed in touch with Skip for years after he left Wake and I think Skip continued to make Josh a better person.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that's accurate.
 
DeaconWalker said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that while all three won with guys that had character issues Skip was the only one of those three that didn't just win with those players, but also actively made them better people. I know I'm going to sound crazy for saying this but wasn't it only just a short time after Skip died that Josh Howard went off the deep end and started saying a bunch of crazy shit? He stayed in touch with Skip for years after he left Wake and I think Skip continued to make Josh a better person.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that's accurate.
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Your general point is correct, but I'm really not you're right about Josh.

If we're thinking about the same two incidents: Anthem and speeding, then here's my take.

Josh got hot mic'd with the National Anthem thing, but he has always been somewhere between stoner/far left political and definitely snap judgment in how he presents his opinion (which if you go into the politics board you'll find is less pathological, than simply the way human beings are)... Speeding (and racing) is fairly common, so I don't really see a whole lot about that incident that suggests he's a bad person.

Outside of that, his subpar work ethic (Chill will attest to this) and his age probably have more to do with his career going downhill in a general sense than Skip's death. Josh is just one of those players who didn't have the skill to compensate once his body broke down.

I don't know where it came from that Josh is a bad guy or that he needed to be a better person. He's a cool dude; he was when I met him as a HS star, as a Deac, and to this day. He's nice and cares about his alma mater.
 
Josh riled up the old-timers when he spoke out against the Iraq War. Lennox ran his quotes in a stream-of-consciousness style, which was a bush league move, but the WSJ is not exactly the NYT in terms of ... well, anything.

In related news, Josh was pretty right about Iraq and Lennox is still a clown.
 
I just want to say, for all Bzz's ineptitude, I am seeing our freshmen improve. Be that natural or inspired by our coaching staff I welcome it. I hope they tear the Tigers a new one. We do have talent. I believe I could roll the ball on the court and win some games with these kids.
 
Liquid Karma said:
Of course he didn't. RJ lied.
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I'd love to know the details about this fairy tale. I'm trying to get a picture of Dave Odom kidnapping a coed. I'm a creative person. I'm not bad a visualizing but this is beyond me.
 
Chris said he "vaguely remembered" I didn't lie.....
 
EagleDeac said:
Are two elbows to the head, one of which was completely intentional (prob both), and Devin Thomas' constant woofing/taunting part of the new culture? i'm not judging these things, just curious if this is acceptable/encouraged under Wellman and Buzz.

Sorry if already discussed - didn't get a chance to see the game until today.
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WTF are you talking about? Did you even watch the game? Completely idiotic post and topic.
 
RJKarl said:
Chris said he "vaguely remembered" I didn't lie.....
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LOL. No one even accused you of lying on this post, just of posting something unsubstantiated, which is what you were up in arms at me for.

ChrisL68 said:
I vaguely remember some story about Odom going out to look for a player with his girlfriend.

The forcing and kidnapping however.
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This is a stupid thread. I didn't catch the CJ incident due to a shitty ass feed, but Moto's incident wasn't intentional, and I know enough about CJ to say with a fairly high level of certainty that his wasn't either.

So what Devin has a little edge to him? I liked it when JTT got excited about a good play, and I like it when Devin does too. Just don't get excited after a good play on an otherwise awful night, that's where JTT got into trouble.
 
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