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I just have to pull this back out again. Are you trying to use Coach Caldwell as a example of a good coach in some crazy defense of Coach [Redacted]? On a Wake board? Really?

This might be as good an example as you will find of how far around their ass the supporters of Coach [Redacted] will go to get to their elbow. Wow.

On another note, if people want to suggest that the talent level is so bad that it is impossible to come up with any way to measure Coach [Redacted]'s job performance, that is insane.

No I was simply making the point that things aren't as black and white as many seem to think they are. Caldwell was suppposedly a great coach a few years ago and got canned this year. Any long time Wake fan knew he wasn't the genius the media made him out to be when Peyton was carrying him. Nor did he deserve to be fired when he had no QB. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Evaluating a coach isn't that easy, because coaching is inextricably intertwined with the talent he has or lacks.
 
Caldwell had Manning like Odom had Childress and Duncan. Take the stars away and you have Bzz.
 
No I was simply making the point that things aren't as black and white as many seem to think they are. Caldwell was suppposedly a great coach a few years ago and got canned this year. Any long time Wake fan knew he wasn't the genius the media made him out to be when Peyton was carrying him. Nor did he deserve to be fired when he had no QB. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Evaluating a coach isn't that easy, because coaching is inextricably intertwined with the talent he has or lacks.

Did people call Caldwell a great coach during the 2009 season?
 
Pretty sure no one ever thought Caldwell was a good coach, including Manning himself.
 
Pretty sure no one ever thought Caldwell was a good coach, including Manning himself.

From Wikipedia:

Caldwell had one of the best debut seasons for a head coach in NFL history, finishing with a 14–2 record. The Colts rushed out to a 14–0 start. With the AFC South title and the top seed in the AFC playoffs secured, Caldwell opted (on orders from then GM, Bill Polian) to sit out his starting players the last two games of the season (both losses), drawing controversy to him and the team.[3] He later won his first playoff game against the Baltimore Ravens on January 16, 2010. On January 24, 2010, Caldwell became the 5th rookie head coach to lead his team to the Super Bowl with a 30–17 victory over the New York Jets. Caldwell holds the NFL record for the best start by a rookie head coach, starting his career with 14 wins. The 14 wins also tied a franchise record.

Following a 2–14 record in 2011, Caldwell was fired on January 17, 2012.

Talent matters.
 
Pretty sure no one ever thought Caldwell was a good coach, including Manning himself.

Peyton liked Caldwell a lot. Not sure he thought Jim was the greatest coach in the world but gave a raving reference of Caldwell to Steve Bisciotti when the Ravens were in the market for a QB coach. And I do think he'll be very good in that capacity. Wouldn't want him as an OC, DC or HC, though.
 
Flashback to March 2011

"It's too early to judge now, we'll know a lot more by March 2012"

Heck, flashback to April 2010.


"It's too early to judge now, we'll know a lot more by March 2011"


Flashback to February 2011


"What did you expect without a full year from TC?"


Now in February 2012


"What did you expect with TC?"
 
Heck, flashback to April 2010.


"It's too early to judge now, we'll know a lot more by March 2011"


Flashback to February 2011


"What did you expect without a full year from TC?"


Now in February 2012


"What did you expect with TC?"

In fairness, no one saw TC being this big of a bust.

I bet buzz knew he was fucked though during practice last year as TC rehabbed. Buzz may suck at life, but I have little doubt he pegged TC as not the answer.
 
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Let's see...with a healthy TC and less talent we have already won 50% more games this year than did without an unhealthy TC.

We added no one who could replace JTT or Ari., yet miraculously we won more.
 
In fairness, no one saw TC being this big of a bust.

I bet buzz knew he was fucked though during practice last year as TC rehabbed. Buzz may suck at life, but I have little doubt he pegged TC as not the answer.

A dude playing PG for the first time? The real answer should be no one expected him to be the answer and shouldn't have used him as an excuse.
 
I love how the buzzsuckers (this is what I'm calling them now, interpret it how you please) just completely gloss over the fact that [Redacted] has already had one recruiting class to try to help address the team's needs yet he failed miserably.
 
I love how the buzzsuckers (this is what I'm calling them now, interpret it how you please) just completely gloss over the fact that [Redacted] has already had one recruiting class to try to help address the team's needs yet he failed miserably.

Dave Odom's first recruiting class included Rodney Rogers and Randolph Childress
Skip Prosser's first recruiting class included Eric Williams and Justin Gray
Dino Gaudio's first recruiting class was Jeff Teague and James Johnson


Jeff [Redacted]'s first recruiting class was Chase Fischer, Daniel Green, and Anthony Fields
 
Well that's because we didn't want Marquis Rankin, Shane Larkin, CJ Barksdale or Julian Royal, obviously.
 
Dave Odom's first recruiting class included Rodney Rogers and Randolph Childress
Skip Prosser's first recruiting class included Eric Williams and Justin Gray
Dino Gaudio's first recruiting class was Jeff Teague and James Johnson


Jeff [Redacted]'s first recruiting class was Chase Fischer, Daniel Green, and Anthony Fields

I believe Teague and Johnson were already enrolled in classes when Dino was hired.
 
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