Fast food strike

[TBR]

Whenever I've gone to McDonald's, worker seem to be working very hard. That's a ridiculous claim. McDonald's wouldn't be so successful if the crew was only made up of "dropouts who just don't care to work hard."

What now? I absolutely do think that when I go to some restaurants (normally ones that have made quality service a part of their brand and likely pay-up for better workers), but when I go to McDonalds my impression is normally that the workers are trying to expend as little physical and mental energy as possible. And, that's fine since they're getting paid jack shit.

And, yeah, labor spend for these places is normally about ~20%*. If you think doubling the wages for the basic crew member and then significantly increasing the wages for the in-store management would be margin-neutral if accompanied with a $0.15 increase in price then, well, good for you.

*just to be clear, I am talking about in-store labor, not corporate labor, such as the CEO (though, truthfully, top executive compensation is likely barely a blip on the radar for a company of MCD's size).

 

[BillBrasky]

The fact that they're asking for $15/hour just destroys any sympathy they would get from a large portion of society. If they we're asking for $10/hour I think they'd be able to get a lot more traction. They're also an incredibly replaceable workforce (which is why they make minimum wage) so I'm not sure that they're accomplishing anything except for risking their jobs and fucking up their chances of getting unemployment or other benefits.

 

[WRS]

But spending $200,000-$250,000 on an eduction sends the right message?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Those of us who went to Wake or a different expensive private school are bad because we had an opportunity that others didn't?

 

[PhDeac]

The fact that they're asking for $15/hour just destroys any sympathy they would get from a large portion of society. If they we're asking for $10/hour I think they'd be able to get a lot more traction. They're also an incredibly replaceable workforce (which is why they make minimum wage) so I'm not sure that they're accomplishing anything except for risking their jobs and fucking up their chances of getting unemployment or other benefits.

Pretty sure most negotiations start with people asking for more than they'll accept.

WRS, where is the discretionary funds for people making minimum wage to afford to go to community college full-time for 2 years? Show me in the budget.

 

[dartsndeacs]

Pretty sure most negotiations start with people asking for more than they'll accept.

WRS, where is the discretionary funds for people making minimum wage to afford to go to community college full-time for 2 years? Show me in the budget.

Community college costs per WRS's numbers $4500/year and my budget shows $5,400 a year in discretionary income. Is there no student loans available for community college folks?

 

[TBR]

Pretty sure most negotiations start with people asking for more than they'll accept.

WRS, where is the discretionary funds for people making minimum wage to afford to go to community college full-time for 2 years? Show me in the budget.

Most people who go to community college do so on a part-time basis while working full time or near full time. Normally tuition and books can be covered via financial aid. Pell grants and the like. I can't say I'm 100% on the mechanics of it all, but, having taken some classes at community college, I feel pretty confident in saying that the majority of students are fairly financially independent (maybe living with parents but responsible for all other expenses, if not some rent as well) and working entry-level type jobs.

 

[ITK]

In N Out starts employees at $10.50/hr.

 

[PhDeac]

Most people who go to community college do so on a part-time basis while working full time or near full time. Normally tuition and books can be covered via financial aid. Pell grants and the like. I can't say I'm 100% on the mechanics of it all, but, having taken some classes at community college, I feel pretty confident in saying that the majority of students are fairly financially independent (maybe living with parents but responsible for all other expenses, if not some rent as well) and working entry-level type jobs.

But that's not who we're talking about. We're talking about people currently working full time in minimum wage jobs who should pursue a 2-year degree in order to better their situation. That's folks in their late 20s and up with families, probably have debt, and unstable lifestyles living from paycheck to paycheck. I haven't seen anybody here budget for debt or extra mouths to feed or child care. That person can't just go to school full time (which is necessary to complete an AS or other associates in a particular field in two years) without taking on a great deal of risk and putting themselves in a bigger financial bind.

As far as the $900 leftover for the year, I had about $900 in incidentals just in the last month. You can't assume these folks' cars work perfectly or their homes need repair or they'll stay healthy or won't have to pay a copay.

 

[TBR]

But that's not who we're talking about. We're talking about people currently working full time in minimum wage jobs who should pursue a 2-year degree in order to better their situation. That's folks in their late 20s and up with families, probably have debt, and unstable lifestyles living from paycheck to paycheck. I haven't seen anybody here budget for debt or extra mouths to feed or child care. That person can't just go to school full time (which is necessary to complete an AS or other associates in a particular field in two years) without taking on a great deal of risk and putting themselves in a bigger financial bind.

As far as the $900 leftover for the year, I had about $900 in incidentals just in the last month. You can't assume these folks' cars work perfectly or their homes need repair or they'll stay healthy or won't have to pay a copay.

Absolutely agree that it's a tough row to hoe to get educated once you're 25+.

The solution is to get more people educated before they have a bunch of responsibilities because, absent responsibilities that come with children and a family, higher education is pretty attainable in this country (yet plenty of people don't do it). I don't know how you do that, but paying no/low skilled people $15 / hour isn't the answer.

 

[PhDeac]

Free public education is where many people get their bootstraps and it is being gutted. A high school diploma doesn't you anywhere nowadays.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

Just going to guess here. White guy from solid middle class or upper middle class background. Had some help buying his first franchise. He has better bootstraps than the people ELC demeans. He probably started working there to chase a little tail and hang out with his friends. ELC, you're smart enough to know that isn't a decent argument at all.

Fine, let's assume for a second that you are correct in all your assumptions. Your version still doesn't account for the fact that he was managing his own stores at 21. Let's overlook the fact that he started up his own franchises and just look at that. He didn't stay a fry cook.

And I don't demean poor people. I demean people who demand something for nothing. Usually, that just happens to be poor people.

 

[WRS]

Most people who go to community college do so on a part-time basis while working full time or near full time. Normally tuition and books can be covered via financial aid. Pell grants and the like. I can't say I'm 100% on the mechanics of it all, but, having taken some classes at community college, I feel pretty confident in saying that the majority of students are fairly financially independent (maybe living with parents but responsible for all other expenses, if not some rent as well) and working entry-level type jobs.

Yes, the money is already there. The article I referenced earlier stated that on average all but $10 of the $1250 for books, supplies and other was covered. There is also significant aid in place to assist with tuition. It's not like someone has to pay $4500 annually out of pocket. And community college schedules are specifically designed to accommodate working students.

 

[PhDeac]

Yes, the money is already there. The article I referenced earlier stated that on average all but $10 of the $1250 for books, supplies and other was covered. There is also significant aid in place to assist with tuition. It's not like someone has to pay $4500 annually out of pocket. And community college schedules are specifically designed to accommodate working students.

Depends on the degree program. If they're trying to take care of core courses to get an AA to transfer into a public university, yes. If they're in a specific AS or other program, there's one maybe two sections of the courses they need and it's harder.

 

[dashionista]

I've missed out on a lot of this discussion, but here's my two cents. I think raising fast food worker wages to $15+ is absolutely ridiculous. But if that passes, retail workers deserve an uptick as well. To put my experience working retail in perspective, I worked at a banana republic right after graduation while interning. I made $7.25 an hour which totaled to something like $10k that year after taxes. I made the company over $250,000 in sales. Got zero extra compensation because of that. Did end up getting bumped up to a whopping $7.50 an hour because I complained. Certain retail workers have it worse in terms of fair compensation.

 

[Deacfreak07]

I've missed out on a lot of this discussion, but here's my two cents. I think raising fast food worker wages to $15+ is absolutely ridiculous. But if that passes, retail workers deserve an uptick as well. To put my experience working retail in perspective, I worked at a banana republic right after graduation while interning. I made $7.25 an hour which totaled to something like $10k that year after taxes. I made the company over $250,000 in sales. Got zero extra compensation because of that. Did end up getting bumped up to $7.50 an hour because I complained. Certain retail workers have it worse in terms of fair compensation.

Such is the life of low skill laborers. There is absolutely zero basic financial incentive to increase pay beyond minimum wage, because there are plenty of potential workers to plug in. If there were no minimum wage requirements, I doubt most hourly workers would be sniffing $7.

 

[tsywake]

$15 an hour for fast food workers? Starting salary for the FDNY is just over $18 an hour. Heck the Winston-Salem fire department starts you out just over $17 an hour.

 

[PhDeac]

Fine, let's assume for a second that you are correct in all your assumptions. Your version still doesn't account for the fact that he was managing his own stores at 21. Let's overlook the fact that he started up his own franchises and just look at that. He didn't stay a fry cook.

And I don't demean poor people. I demean people who demand something for nothing. Usually, that just happens to be poor people.

My version is all about that. You think he bought a franchise at 21 solely from money he earned starting in a minimum wage job at 15 and working hard for 6 years? Even if that were magically true, he was under the care of his parents for at least part of that time. You can't translate that to older workers who are supporting families.

 

[davejuice]

In N Out starts employees at $10.50/hr.

well yeah, they have to memorize the hidden menu

 

[ChrisL68]

He didn't buy a franchise at 21. He bought a franchise in 1999 when he was 43 or so. He was managing a Mickey D's by the time he was 21 after starting there at 15.

And this guy who worked his way up through a fast food restaurant had a family with deep pockets?

 

[EatLeadCommie]

My version is all about that. You think he bought a franchise at 21 solely from money he earned starting in a minimum wage job at 15 and working hard for 6 years? Even if that were magically true, he was under the care of his parents for at least part of that time. You can't translate that to older workers who are supporting families.

You and BKF need to read it again before you make assumptions. He started working there when he was 15. Shift manager at 19. Manager at 21. Bought his first franchise in 1999. Story was written in 2011, 40 years after he started working there. That means he was 43 when he bought his first franchise (15+40=55. 2011-1999=12. 55-12=43). So first off, Ph, your assumption is more than likely incorrect, unless we are to believe that his folks coddled him for 22 years after he became a manager. Second, your assumption still does not account for him deciding quite early on that fry cook was a position beneath his abilities. He did not linger in a low skill position and bitch about making minimum wage.