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Fast food strike

The left has gotten just as bad as the right in their pidgeonholing. Apparently, nobody can change their lot in life through smart decisions anymore. We are all just slaves to the station in life that we were born into.

I have two friends who grew up in similar middle class upbringings in HS. One heads the radiology department at a major hospital, and the other works as a carpenter during the day after working the night shift at UPS and lives hand to mouth. The choices each made did impact their current lot in life.
 
You and BKF need to read it again before you make assumptions. He started working there when he was 15. Shift manager at 19. Manager at 21. Bought his first franchise in 1999. Story was written in 2011, 40 years after he started working there. That means he was 43 when he bought his first franchise (15+40=55. 2011-1999=12. 55-12=43). So first off, Ph, your assumption is more than likely incorrect, unless we are to believe that his folks coddled him for 22 years after he became a manager. Second, your assumption still does not account for him deciding quite early on that fry cook was a position beneath his abilities. He did not linger in a low skill position and bitch about making minimum wage.

Thanks for the correction on the calculations.

To your second point, you think he just decided not to be a fry cook and people who aren't promoted beyond those positions decided they do want to be fry cooks? People have to be promoted by management.
 
Thanks for the correction on the calculations.

To your second point, you think he just decided not to be a fry cook and people who aren't promoted beyond those positions decided they do want to be fry cooks? People have to be promoted by management.

Of course. And yet clearly, regardless of what decision his managers made at the time, he wasn't going to be content in that position and sought to make an impression and better himself. If he had never been recognized by management, do you honestly think he'd still be a fry cook at McDonald's?
 
$15 an hour for fast food workers? Starting salary for the FDNY is just over $18 an hour. Heck the Winston-Salem fire department starts you out just over $17 an hour.

I know teachers, some with masters, that only get paid $12-$15 per hour.
 
Of course. And yet clearly, regardless of what decision his managers made at the time, he wasn't going to be content in that position and sought to make an impression and better himself. If he had never been recognized by management, do you honestly think he'd still be a fry cook at McDonald's?

You're serious? You can't just decide to get a better job and get one. Being recognized by management is different than simply not being content as a fry cook.

And I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity to post this classic In Living Color sketch:
 
I like to look at this issue from a slightly different perspective. Should we as a society mandate that people who are employed full time receive sufficient wages to live a certain lifestyle? Because all we are doing now is trying to bridge the gap with government assistance which is allowing us to subsidize McDonald's operating model. If people care enough to eat fast food, it should cost enough to cover the costs to produce the food, including paying an employee to where they could reasonably expect to live safely without additional assistance. If that raises prices to an unreasonable amount, fast food will have to adjust their model. I'm just not crazy about subsidizing an entire business model with taxpayer money just so fat people can enjoy a dollar menu.
 
I like to look at this issue from a slightly different perspective. Should we as a society mandate that people who are employed full time receive sufficient wages to live a certain lifestyle? Because all we are doing now is trying to bridge the gap with government assistance which is allowing us to subsidize McDonald's operating model. If people care enough to eat fast food, it should cost enough to cover the costs to produce the food, including paying an employee to where they could reasonably expect to live safely without additional assistance. If that raises prices to an unreasonable amount, fast food will have to adjust their model. I'm just not crazy about subsidizing an entire business model with taxpayer money just so fat people can enjoy a dollar menu.

Great post, bmoney.
 
I like to look at this issue from a slightly different perspective. Should we as a society mandate that people who are employed full time receive sufficient wages to live a certain lifestyle? Because all we are doing now is trying to bridge the gap with government assistance which is allowing us to subsidize McDonald's operating model. If people care enough to eat fast food, it should cost enough to cover the costs to produce the food, including paying an employee to where they could reasonably expect to live safely without additional assistance. If that raises prices to an unreasonable amount, fast food will have to adjust their model. I'm just not crazy about subsidizing an entire business model with taxpayer money just so fat people can enjoy a dollar menu.

Ba-da-ba-ba-ba...Big Government!
 
I should say that my post was written while thinking about long-term market equilibrium and all that theoretical stuff. If we were to raise minimum wage immediately to 10+, the hope is that the same money wouldn't need to be spent paying taxes that then goes to assistance programs. However in real life, I'm pretty sure there would be a pretty significant lag and the first people to get squeezed would be the minimum wage workers who would then become unemployed. Plus, you know your taxes aren't going down so you'd have less buying power at a fast food restaurant. We'd need to have scheduled increases to achieve a certain level of lifestyle over a multi-year period.
 
I like to look at this issue from a slightly different perspective. Should we as a society mandate that people who are employed full time receive sufficient wages to live a certain lifestyle? Because all we are doing now is trying to bridge the gap with government assistance which is allowing us to subsidize McDonald's operating model. If people care enough to eat fast food, it should cost enough to cover the costs to produce the food, including paying an employee to where they could reasonably expect to live safely without additional assistance. If that raises prices to an unreasonable amount, fast food will have to adjust their model. I'm just not crazy about subsidizing an entire business model with taxpayer money just so fat people can enjoy a dollar menu.

Outside of the ridiculous bickering between bleeding hearts and conservatives, of which I fall decidedly on the conservative side. I've thought about this a lot lately. The short to medium run results of fast food workers getting their wage increase is that either fast food prices increase to account for the labor (which is actually difficult to do because lots of the franchises have "deals" that are set by corporate that they have to honor) or the market rejects the increases and lots of fast food restaurants close and the ones that don't close are able to stay alive with extreme low margin and extreme volume (Fast Food Wars, Demolition man, Taco Bell....). So in the short to mid range, either the increase is passed along to the consumer (demand will be effected to some degree) and a small amount of jobs (by jobs i mean fast food jobs) are lost (due to some degree of demand loss) or tons of jobs are lost and only the "best" fast food joints with the best employees (that are worth their salt, so to speak) will remain. In the long run, systems will be created to cut the fast food employee out (reduce the price of fast food, or at least the labor component), or at least increase his/her productivity so that a high wage will be sustainable, so at the end of the day, most of these jobs will vanish. There would likely, eventually only be one of two people per store, working and fixing robots or computers getting paid whatever their skill level is worth
The end result, is that people will either have to get better (justify their wage) or won't be able to work.
McDonalds (which I'll use as a stand in for all fast food and all low skill labor) isn't meant to support someone on their own. It does allow people with no skills an avenue to work (and at least get paid something, even if their income has to be subsidized). Increase the minimum wage and eventually either those people have to provide more value, or they just won't be able to work. That's the ultimate question. In one scenario, you could see that people (I'm not really talking individuals, but people on the lower end of the economic spectrum) either better themselves and get to where the lowest skill person can provide value to back up their wage (in a way that 100 years ago, a small percentage of people could read, so the lowest skill person was basically a rented mule, but now most people can read, write and communicate effectively thus can provide more value than a rented mule) or people will just stagnate and won't be able to work at all as efficiency marginalizes the employees whose value is less than their wages.
Of course, the two scenarios above aren't mutually exclusive, you'd likely see the later one happen then eventually the former one would (hopefully) come around....but to what extent would either of them occur and what problems might that cause....who knows.
Obviously for people to "get better" they have to be better educated and to better educate the lower end of the economic spectrum there will probably have to be better educational systems and some sort of culture shock in said economic spectrum. (the later probably being the hardest to achieve)

I'm not against a minimum wage, I think it's main factor isn't to "provide" a living wage to people, but it's to basically force innovation and rid a complex economy of low wage, low skill jobs. Of course, poorly timed and unreasonable increases in the minimum wage can be hurtful to the economy as a whole and the very people it's trying to help because it may be too much at one time and the people on minimum wage can't adjust their skill set (quickly enough) to justify their wage nor can the businesses that rely on low skill (a relative term) labor innovate quickly enough to keep themselves afloat
 
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I like to look at this issue from a slightly different perspective. Should we as a society mandate that people who are employed full time receive sufficient wages to live a certain lifestyle? Because all we are doing now is trying to bridge the gap with government assistance which is allowing us to subsidize McDonald's operating model. If people care enough to eat fast food, it should cost enough to cover the costs to produce the food, including paying an employee to where they could reasonably expect to live safely without additional assistance. If that raises prices to an unreasonable amount, fast food will have to adjust their model. I'm just not crazy about subsidizing an entire business model with taxpayer money just so fat people can enjoy a dollar menu.

I thought about making a similar post, however you would have to apply that to every industry that employs workers who they pay under a living wage. And that folks is a lot of this country's industry, including a majority of small businesses. And while McDonald's can maybe afford to adjust their model, those companies cannot. They'll just close their doors.

Or do we start deciding which businesses have to pay a living wage, and which ones don't? Just another idea that allows you guys to pat yourselves on the back, but doesn't actually fix anything.
 
I still want to know who said that 40 hours/week at minimum wage is "supposed" to provide a "living wage"? Why do these people have a "right" to be able to make enough money to live on by working 40 hours a week in an unskilled job?

People trade work for money. You can make more money in one of two ways: increase the hours you work (work provided), or increase the value (skill/knowledge) of each of your work hours. If a person is unwilling or unable to increase the value of their work by getting more education or obtaining skills which are in demand and which are not as readily available, then, if they want to make more money they work more hours.

How many of us here only work 40 hours/week?

And I get pretty tired of people claiming that anyone against the idea of paying unskilled fast food workers $15/hour is "privileged" and that is why they just don't get it. That is a bunch of crap (at least as a generalization). I could tell a lot of stories about people that I know that worked their ass off to get where they are - working full time and going to school full time at the same time, working more than one job, working 60 or 80 hours a week, etc. There are plenty of problems in this country, with education, with healthcare, and on and on - refusing to pay fast food workers $15/hour is not one of them.
 
I thought about making a similar post, however you would have to apply that to every industry that employs workers who they pay under a living wage. And that folks is a lot of this country's industry, including a majority of small businesses. And while McDonald's can maybe afford to adjust their model, those companies cannot. They'll just close their doors.

Or do we start deciding which businesses have to pay a living wage, and which ones don't? Just another idea that allows you guys to pat yourselves on the back, but doesn't actually fix anything.

Not sure who "you guys" refers to but okay.

We already apply this type of legislation to every industry in the form of a minimum wage. It's just that the minimum wage has not kept up with COL and is no longer a "living wage." We are making up the difference via government payments to the individuals. Maybe that's necessary (espec in the short-term), but it doesn't feel like it's the most economically efficient in the long term. I'm just spitballing here but without giving too much thought I'd propose the following: minimum wage be tied to some reasonable assumptions (# of hours expected to work- not sure if this should be 50, 60, etc. hours per week, location of job, etc.) to come up with what type of money a person needs to live a safe lifestyle. Tie that to inflation and adjust annually. Whatever the difference is between today's minimum wage and whatever it would be based on my fancy calculation would be divided by 5 and employers would have to make up the difference 20% per annum (plus any marginal increases due to inflation over the time period). During the 5 year catch-up, government benefits for someone fitting the minimum wage profile would decrease 20% annually until in 5 year, VOILA companies are forced to pay something that looks like a living wage.
 
You'd think business owners would be for getting rid of their health care burden.
 
Considering that all our government really does is allow itself to be co-opted by big business and appears to be no less corrupt than any other large government, I feel a little less inclined to hand it the power of single-payer. Because we as the people apparently have no recourse to oversee are unelected bureaucrats.

That being said single-payer is probably the best option at this point. I just don't trust anyone currently in charge to run it without grabbing as much power and money as possible.
 
I agree...and you are dead-on regarding one of the biggest problems in this country: Healthcare. One of the best things that could ever happen to this country....and hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later....would be a single-payer, government-run healthcare system. Exploding healthcare costs due to for-profit private healthcare industries have sucked the lifeblood out of the American people over the years....as well as out of employers, which makes the cost of doing business higher, which in turn impacts the ability to pay better wages and still make a profit.

This is a great idea and would deal with some other big issues - the exploding costs of social security and pension plans because people are living so long. Life expectancy would stop increasing and start decreasing due to crappy or non-existent/not available healthcare. Awesome.

I'm kidding but, really, seriously, do people want our government running our healthcare? If so, I am amazed...
 
This is a great idea and would deal with some other big issues - the exploding costs of social security and pension plans because people are living so long. Life expectancy would stop increasing and start decreasing due to crappy or non-existent/not available healthcare. Awesome.

I'm kidding but, really, seriously, do people want our government running our healthcare? If so, I am amazed...

You like how the private sector is running our healthcare?
 
I read something on reddit the other day about people from countries with UHC describing their experiences with it. Granted redditors are probably younger and use healthcare less than average and lean strongly left, but I was amazed at how positive their reactions were towards it. Note, this doesn't at all talk about how it's all paid for, just the delivery of healthcare. Obviously some of the countries that have UHC are broken fiscally. I'm not nearly well versed enough to determine how much of a cause of their fiscal woes UHC is.
 
You like how the private sector is running our healthcare?

I like the technology and the advances and the availability, etc. I don't like the cost - which is heavily impacted by the expense of malpractice insurance, which is heavily impacted by the litigious nature of our country, etc. Unike others here, I am not convinced that healthcare is a right.
 
I read something on reddit the other day about people from countries with UHC describing their experiences with it. Granted redditors are probably younger and use healthcare less than average and lean strongly left, but I was amazed at how positive their reactions were towards it. Note, this doesn't at all talk about how it's all paid for, just the delivery of healthcare. Obviously some of the countries that have UHC are broken fiscally. I'm not nearly well versed enough to determine how much of a cause of their fiscal woes UHC is.

All my euro friends love it. I have honestly never heard them complain about it.
 
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