Going to GA- Bring your gun to the airport!

[Wrangor]

If you want a lecture, let me know, I'll work on it. Is it a sin? Yea, probably. Don't have time to launch into a full theological treatise right now to lay out the thoughts/arguments.

But two quick points-
1) I wasn't giving a lecture, nor did I bring up the idea of "sin." I simply pointed out the error in preparing for worship like you do every other day of the week (gun as habit, as you suggested). If worship doesn't change you, or make you do things differently, then it's not living up to its potential / purpose.

2) Did Jesus stutter when in the garden he said "put down the sword?"

Colored shocked that we have theological differences on the nature of sin .

 

[BarcaDeac]

Point taken. I know 4 people in my church that carry to church. I would describe 1 out if 4 as living in fear. The other 3 just carry at all times. Putting on a gun is like putting on a belt for them. They are used to it have done it forever and it is just a part of their routine.

The odds aren't likely I realize that. I am just reticent to minimize people based on one part of their daily life. This thread is full of snide, sarcastic, denigrating remarks towards anyone who disagrees with the anti-gun crowd. Heck - bake keeps following me around to tell me how pathetic I am. It is like Moonz all over again.

I am not a gun advocate per say. I have fired a weapon 3-4 times in my life. I just see a lot of very stable people on a day to day basis who carry a weapon in a responsible manner and aren't living in fear of the boogeyman. So it strikes me as pretty narrow minded when posters assign pretty harsh personality defects to normal people simply because they don't think like they do.

Pretty much the MO of this board when discussion gets confrontational. Attack the messenger.

And no one has dared to address the question if just how often licensed carriers shoot people in public. That is what the hysteria on this thread is supposed to be about. Speaking in platitudes is only ok if you take the anti-gun position apparently.

What purpose does the belt serve to them? I'd wager to hold their pants up and tie together their outfit. What purpose does the gun serve to them? I'd wager they'd say for protection. To go out needing that is a sign of living in fear to me. That might not be their reasoning, but I'd like to hear what it is, then.

 

[Wrangor]

How do you know who is a licensed open carrier and who isn't?

You are the one citing the problem. Where is the problem? What data are you drawing from? Do concealed and carry gun states have a higher murder rate? Does the elimination of carry reduce gun crime? You are the one making the statement. What is your reasoning?

 

[Wrangor]

What purpose does the belt serve to them? I'd wager to hold their pants up and tie together their outfit. What purpose does the gun serve to them? I'd wager they'd say for protection. To go out needing that is a sign of living in fear to me. That might not be their reasoning, but I'd like to hear what it is, then.

Do you put on a seat belt out of fear? Lock your doors out of fear? Or are they just reasonable precautions against the unlikely? Security system? We take all sorts of precautions in life based on a minimal chance of danger. We buy life insurance. Are we all peeing our pants over dying? No it is taking a reasonable precaution in case an unlikely circumstance occurs.

Calling gun owners fear mongerors is simply a tool to diminish their position through mockery. Owning and even carrying a gun doesn't mean you live in fear. You certainly could be living I fear but it doesn't necessitate it. You might just be taking a precaution that you see as completely reasonable and safe.

 

[PhDeac]

You are the one citing the problem. Where is the problem? What data are you drawing from? Do concealed and carry gun states have a higher murder rate? Does the elimination of carry reduce gun crime? You are the one making the statement. What is your reasoning?

Read the thread. I've outlined it.

 

[Wrangor]

Read the thread. I've outlined it.

OK. Here are your posts.

Flying into Atlanta was bad enough.

I don't think gun nuts understand that people can't tell if they are the crazy person who is going to shoot up the place or the wannabe cowboy who will try to save them.

Good point.

So much mobile rep.

Who are the people in an airport who aren't coming from a plane or going through security? Employees and people dropping off and picking up? Why do they need to open carry?

More people. It's an international location especially at ATL. I'd hate for visitors to the US to be welcomed by idiots carrying around rifles. It's not a good look.

I think security should be a priority throughout the airport not just at the gates.

Open carry in an airport is akin to shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

Exactly.

What gets me about this is that they clearly ignored the input of law enforcement. It's helpful if the good guys don't carry guns, so if they see somebody with a gun, they can identify that person as a threat.

True. That's probably why Wrangor keeps reminding us he doesn't carry a gun.

How do you know they aren't getting through security? They could have hostages. They could walk right up to security and shoot their way through because stopping them anytime before would have been violating their rights.

Airport parking lots are much closer to planes than typical parking lots and much closer to a lot more people.

My fears of people with loaded guns is more legit than their fears of terrorists. And again, it makes the job tougher for those tasked with finding the real criminals.

What's your obsession with the parking lot? They can get a lot closer than that. They can get into the terminal and all but the security line without anybody saying a word.

This law makes it much easier for somebody to get shots off in a public place.

More people. It's an international location especially at ATL. I'd hate for visitors to the US to be welcomed by idiots carrying around rifles. It's not a good look.

This is the problem. Average Joes who don't have the balls to join the armed forces think they're soldiers.

How do you know who is a licensed open carrier and who isn't?

It saddens me that a large cross-section of our citizenry supports fewer restrictions on the right to bear arms while putting more restrictions on the right to vote.

MOHR DATA PLEASE!

 

[RJKarl]

Do you put on a seat belt out of fear? Lock your doors out of fear? Or are they just reasonable precautions against the unlikely? Security system? We take all sorts of precautions in life based on a minimal chance of danger. We buy life insurance. Are we all peeing our pants over dying? No it is taking a reasonable precaution in case an unlikely circumstance occurs.

Calling gun owners fear mongerors is simply a tool to diminish their position through mockery. Owning and even carrying a gun doesn't mean you live in fear. You certainly could be living I fear but it doesn't necessitate it. You might just be taking a precaution that you see as completely reasonable and safe.

For their fear to be rational, you'd have to say there is a reasonable chance one or more of the members of your church is likely to commit the atrocity in your church. If that's not the case, then they are being irrational and insulting every parishioner.

 

[Strickland33]

OK. Here are your posts.
































MOHR DATA PLEASE!

In regards to what? Plenty of data has been posted.

 

[HowardDeanSux]

For their fear to be rational, you'd have to say there is a reasonable chance one or more of the members of your church is likely to commit the atrocity in your church. If that's not the case, then they are being irrational and insulting every parishioner.

Might surprise you, but not likely other parishioners would be their concern.

 

[PhDeac]

Might surprise you, but not likely other parishioners would be their concern.

So would they warmly welcome a visitor who came in holding a gun?

 

[RJKarl]

Might surprise you, but not likely other parishioners would be their concern.

He lives in a small town. Unless the killer is coming from out of town, it's very likely they know the person.

 

[ONW]

And how many airport shootings from open carry? What are the numbers on that? Public place shootings from open carry?

No one seems to want to post those statistics. I will warrant you that it is not likely that a guy will come in and shoot up a church. But I bet the odds of that are much better than a licensed open carrier taking a hostage and hijacking a plane from the ticket counter.

This is why I didn't bother to look up any more statistics. Unless you're paying research and consulting fees then

 

[ONW]

Do you put on a seat belt out of fear? Lock your doors out of fear? Or are they just reasonable precautions against the unlikely? Security system? We take all sorts of precautions in life based on a minimal chance of danger. We buy life insurance. Are we all peeing our pants over dying? No it is taking a reasonable precaution in case an unlikely circumstance occurs.

Calling gun owners fear mongerors is simply a tool to diminish their position through mockery. Owning and even carrying a gun doesn't mean you live in fear. You certainly could be living I fear but it doesn't necessitate it. You might just be taking a precaution that you see as completely reasonable and safe.

How many seat belts and door locks have killed people this year? A security system says, I'm playing defense. A gun says, I'm playing offense.

 

[Wrangor]

The best defense is sometimes a good offense. . The point stands. We act all the time out of concern for safety. This doesn't mean a person is 'living in fear'. It could mean that, but it doesn't necessitate that.

I see no one has any statistical proof that conceal and carry would increase murder at an airport. This entire thread is an exercise in hysteria fueled by bias.

The 2nd amendment is a right. An airport ticket counter or parking lot is no different than a shopping mall or a public park. If you don't like concealed or open carry laws in general just make that your stance (I can somewhat see the reasoning behind that), but to act as though this is some special case defies common sense. It isn't. No terrorist is putting a gun on his hip and walking through security and none are going to take a hostage at the ticket counter, parade the hostage through security, board a plane, and then take off.

The statistics don't even support that carry/conceal implementation increases the murder rate. Of course anyone can find a study somewhere that proves their opinion, but there is zero consensus on whether carry/conceal does harm or good. There is no evidence that I could find of any of the airport scenarios that PH was saying might happen.

So basically we have a big anti-gun crowd making a lot of noise because the optics of this decision look quirky. Guns in airports! Ohnoes!

 

[RJKarl]

Using Wrangor's logic, anyone in America should be able to conceal or open carry any gun they want onto plane. Since in his world the 2nd Amendment is absolute, there can be no such laws.

Also if you can open carry your gun or rifle on a train or bus or cab, "it defies common sense"to have "some special case" for airplanes. All are modes of transportation open to the public.

 

[FuckmouthedRube]

Still don't understand who's the driving force behind open carry everywhere-it certainly isn't retailers (special Black Friday discounts if you show up with your assault rifle before noon) or law enforcement (9 bystanders injured by NYPD cops in broad daylight during Empire State Building shootout). NRA mainly represents gun manufacturers, so any fear that Obama's going to take your guns bumps up sales. Gun Owners of America is more aggressive ideologically. Still don't think there's a chance of revision/removal of the second amendment or confiscation of guns, so why go on offense when it makes people uncomfortable? Are pols in TX/GA/MS so terrified that if they don't expand the number of guns and where they can be carried they'll face more gun-friendly primary opponents? NRA has been noticeably silent on stand your ground laws, but at some point there's a tipping point (arming teachers?) where a backlash will occur. Louie Gohmert famously lamented people weren't armed during the Aurora CO theater shooting. Does he not realize that theaters are pitch black and that 20 people shooting in the dark while people are trying to flee isn't remotely helpful?

 

[PhDeac]

That's why everyone should have night vision goggles and a bulletproof vest when they go to the movies.

It's like wearing a belt and locking the door.

 

[DeacinBama]

Where I live, the NRA has publicly admonished and separated themselves from the people who randomly carry around long-barrel firearms. The ones who aren't protesting or demonstrating explicitly, but just going about their day while carrying a rifle. The NRA clearly senses that this can and will backfire, too.

 

[PhDeac]

Got a link? All I've seen is the national backtrack.

 

[RJKarl]

Gun carry proponents' wet dream and favorite movie scene: