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HOF Results out tomorrow - Maddux not unanimous?

palmab03 said:
Tim Raines is my favorite player of all time, its horseshit he's not in.
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Yep, it makes zero sense to me that Lou Brock got in 1st ballot, yet the Rock doesn't even get close to 75%. He should absolutely be in.
 
deac29 said:
While certainly not conclusive, Thomas was always pretty outspoken against steroid use and a very early proponent of testing.
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This. Its circumstantial, but he came off as very credible through the whole era. He wanted lifetime bans on the first offense, HGH testing, everything. To me he was really a great example of a guy who had a legit reason to be pissed off about the whole thing (due to his numbers being watered down) and took a stand. There aren't a whole lot of those guys.
 
woody9186 said:
Yep, it makes zero sense to me that Lou Brock got in 1st ballot, yet the Rock doesn't even get close to 75%. He should absolutely be in.
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Brock's and Raines' numbers are almost identical. Brock had a few more top ten MVP finishes, but that's about it. It's really hard to figure why Raines has never even been close. Did he piss off a lot of the writers or something?
 
Shorty said:
Brock's and Raines' numbers are almost identical. Brock had a few more top ten MVP finishes, but that's about it. It's really hard to figure why Raines has never even been close. Did he piss off a lot of the writers or something?
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Actually, Raines is clearly the much better player. 66.4 bWAR to 43.2, .801 OPS to .753, .361 wOBA to .336. Raines was a better defender and runner as well.
 
Go said:
Also, give me a Hall of Very Good team and I betcha they'd beat Hall of Fame teams on any given day.
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OK Here's my Hall of Fame team and batting order:

DH- Rickey Henderson (gotta have a leadoff hitter)
SS- Honus Wagenr - only saw him play twice :)
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Willie Mays
LF- Ted Williams
1B - Lou Gherig
3B- Mike Schmidt
2B- Rogers Hornsby
C- Roy Campanella (3 time MVP-highest % of baserunners thrown out in MLB history- toughest position Bench, Berra and Cochrane were close)

LHP- Lefty Grove
LHP -Sandy Koufax
LHP - Steve Carlton (narrowly over Warren Spahn)
RHP- Walter Johnson
RHP -Bob Gibson
RHP - Juan Marichal (close with Maddux)

Find a team of not in and see :)
Relief Pitcher - Mariano Rivera (he'll be in HOF in five years - most overrated position
 
RJKarl said:
OK Here's my Hall of Fame team and batting order:

DH- Rickey Henderson (gotta have a leadoff hitter)
SS- Honus Wagenr - only saw him play twice :)
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Willie Mays
LF- Ted Williams
1B - Lou Gherig
3B- Mike Schmidt
2B- Rogers Hornsby
C- Roy Campanella (3 time MVP-highest % of baserunners thrown out in MLB history- toughest position Bench, Berra and Cochrane were close)

LHP- Lefty Grove
LHP -Sandy Koufax
LHP - Steve Carlton (narrowly over Warren Spahn)
RHP- Walter Johnson
RHP -Bob Gibson
RHP - Juan Marichal (close with Maddux)

Find a team of not in and see :)
Relief Pitcher - Mariano Rivera (he'll be in HOF in five years - most overrated position
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why rickey at dh instead of williams?
 
None of the other guys are really leadoff hitters.

If I would change, I'd likely add Aaron or Mantle as DH. Unless I took Bonds as LF.
 
RJKarl said:
OK Here's my Hall of Fame team and batting order:

DH- Rickey Henderson (gotta have a leadoff hitter)
SS- Honus Wagenr - only saw him play twice :)
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Willie Mays
LF- Ted Williams
1B - Lou Gherig
3B- Mike Schmidt
2B- Rogers Hornsby
C- Roy Campanella (3 time MVP-highest % of baserunners thrown out in MLB history- toughest position Bench, Berra and Cochrane were close)

LHP- Lefty Grove
LHP -Sandy Koufax
LHP - Steve Carlton (narrowly over Warren Spahn)
RHP- Walter Johnson
RHP -Bob Gibson
RHP - Juan Marichal (close with Maddux)

Find a team of not in and see :)
Relief Pitcher - Mariano Rivera (he'll be in HOF in five years - most overrated position
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I'd hit Gehrig fourth and Mays sixth. Obviously several guys on that team could hit cleanup, but Gehrig's production numbers as a cleanup hitter are insane and having Mays' speed in the sixth spot gives you a chance to kind of start the line-up over with a guy who can run.

What I'd rather do with your lineup, though, is drop Henderson all together, put Mays in the leadoff spot, move Ruth to DH, and put Aaron in right field.
 
I might actually take Bonds over Rickey. For six-seven consecutive years before any PED allegations, he had over 1.000 OPS. He also averaged over 30 SB/year. He was lock to be the only 500/500 (probably 650-700/500 guy). He would be an amazing leadoff hitter.

But Aaron is a fine choice as is Mickey.
 
RJKarl said:
I might actually take Bonds over Rickey. For six-seven consecutive years before any PED allegations, he had over 1.000 OPS. He also averaged over 30 SB/year. He was lock to be the only 500/500 (probably 650-700/500 guy). He would be an amazing leadoff hitter.

But Aaron is a fine choice as is Mickey.
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Can't take Bonds, he's not in the Hall of Fame.
 
RJKarl said:
None of the other guys are really leadoff hitters.

If I would change, I'd likely add Aaron or Mantle as DH. Unless I took Bonds as LF.
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my point was why have rickey sitting on the bench when his team is fielding? there's no way he was a worse fielder than ted williams.
 
deacphan said:
my point was why have rickey sitting on the bench when his team is fielding? there's no way he was a worse fielder than ted williams.
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That could make sense.

Putting Bonds in LF and leading off with Ted at DH might be a better option as well. Bonds was a really good LF for many years.
 
bobknightfan said:
I'm really, really happy that the Big Hurt was voted into the Hall. I was afraid he would get shafted. The guy was nothing less than spectacular. In his first eight full seasons from 1991 thru 1998 he had 100+ runs, 100+ walks, 100+ RBIs, a 300+ average & 24+ HRs every single year.....averaging 35 HRs with a .321 BA during those eight years.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thomafr04.shtml
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and yet my big Hurt rookie card has dropped 10x in value from when I bought it.

My dad still tells me the story of when we waited down by the bus line behind the barriers at old Veterans stadium, I tried to get Rock's attention and autograph on a ball he caught that day, and when he kept walking I ran out under the barriers and ran right in front of him, had the ball in both my hands and lifted it up over my head and he signed it.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
Just look at this fucking Gurnick guy. Jesus Christ talk about the 98lb weakling club. The dwarf twins would pummel this guy. He couldnt field a grounder if you were going to shoot his mom in front of him. How do these people get votes?

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Dude looks like the guy from Nathan For You.
 
RJKarl said:
OK Here's my Hall of Fame team and batting order:

DH- Rickey Henderson (gotta have a leadoff hitter)
SS- Honus Wagenr - only saw him play twice :)
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Willie Mays
LF- Ted Williams
1B - Lou Gherig
3B- Mike Schmidt
2B- Rogers Hornsby
C- Roy Campanella (3 time MVP-highest % of baserunners thrown out in MLB history- toughest position Bench, Berra and Cochrane were close)

LHP- Lefty Grove
LHP -Sandy Koufax
LHP - Steve Carlton (narrowly over Warren Spahn)
RHP- Walter Johnson
RHP -Bob Gibson
RHP - Juan Marichal (close with Maddux)

Find a team of not in and see :)
Relief Pitcher - Mariano Rivera (he'll be in HOF in five years - most overrated position
Click to expand...

There's a lifetime .367 hitter out there, who hit over .400 3 times, who would probably be a pretty good leadoff..
 
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