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If Bz was to go

Strickland33 said:
I agree with everything you've said here.

Stevens has jumped on every top-100 talent that he's been fortunate enough to recruit. He's recruiting to the best of his ability at a small school with a small-ish budget, that's in the shadow of giants. Landing Mack and Hayward were recruiting coups on the mid-major stage. Furthermore, he managed to pull in an in-state top-100 player this year.

If you think recruiting in NC is tough for Wake, then imagine how hard it is to recruit in the shadow of Big 10 giants like Indiana, Purdue, and Illinois at a school with a fairly small budget to comp you...

And yes, Stevens would be a heck of a recruiter here.
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Every top 100 talent? That's a pool of 2, one of whom doesn't suit up until next year. Mack had no offers from any legitimate school and was an unrated 2 star. The big guys took a look and all passed. [Redacted] would be skewered for recruiting such a player at Wake this year.

The reason I'd take Stevens in a heartbeat is because he has demonstrated the ability to out-recruit teams getting top 100 prospects without having to pull in top 10 classes per national consensus. Wake has serious roadblocks for recruiting - always has, always will. A guy like Stevens who can clearly recruit around those roadblocks and identify 2 stars who end up in the NBA is exactly what we need. Chasing 5 star guys year in and year out behind Duke and UNC is a losing strategy, as we've proven for a decade or more.

The point I was making earlier is that, to this point today, that is basically what [Redacted] is doing. People are critical that we have no 5 star talent on the way, that we jumped on Codi early before he was well ranked, etc... That we're not top 10 and the class isn't that good. I'm just saying that, not knowing how they'll turn out yet, it doesn't seem all that different than the strategy Stevens would have employed here. And I seriously doubt we would have sprung from the ashes his first or second year - as his current season is showing even he needs talent to succeed.

Maybe Butler struggles another 2 years and our attempt at having a homeless man's Brad Stevens rebuild our program lands us the real Stevens to finish the job... Is there a praying emoticon?
 
Do people really believe that if Brad Stevens were coaching at a big-time school in a BCS conference, he would continue to recruit outside of the top 100? In what universe does that make any sense at all?
 
I think Stevens would only recruit top 10 rated players here and if he didn't get them he wouldn't sign anybody.

There, I've done it. I've also talked out of my ass about something that I have no idea if it is true or not, and cannot be categorically be proven incorrect either. Success.
 
Brad Stevens is not coming here. Ever.

Shaka Smart might.

Gregg Marshall would love to.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
Marshall is probably unrealistic too because of personality issues.

John Groce is still at the top for me.
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Groce has not done that well at Ohio U. They are in a terrible conference and he has only been over .500 twice out of four years (assuming he finishes this season as he started).
 
RJKarl said:
Groce has not done that well at Ohio U. They are in a terrible conference and he has only been over .500 twice out of four years (assuming he finishes this season as he started).
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Ohio KenPom ranking 92
Wake KenPom ranking 206
 
While I'm as BZZOUT as they come, I've been surprised with the way we've looked this season.

Then again, if we don't win another game at all and finish 11-19 (2-14) that opinion will change.


But it's still better than last season.

One more year and if we still improve and sniff .500 in/out of conference then we'll see what Bzz can do from there.

If he stagnates and it's the same again next year then what's the use keeping him around?
 
Groce's last 4 years:

2009 -- (15-17, 7-9), KenPom 180, KenPom Top 100 Wins 2
2010 -- (22-15, 7-9), KenPom 93, Won MAC Tournament, defeated Georgetown in NCAA Tournament, KenPom Top 100 Wins 4
2011 -- (19-16, 9-7), KenPom 149, KenPom Top 100 Wins 2
2012 -- (18-4, 6-2), KenPom 92, KenPom Top 100 Wins 3

February+ March Record In Three Previous Years: 25-17
Total Postseason Wins In Last Three Years (conf. tourn. + otherwise): 8

[Redacted]'s last 4 years:

2009 -- (9-22, 1-15), KenPom 168, KenPom Top 100 Wins 0
2010 -- (15-16, 6-10), KenPom 86, KenPom Top 100 Wins 6
2011 -- (8-24, 1-15), KenPom 251, KenPom Top 100 Wins 2
2012 -- (11-11, 2-6), KenPom 206, KenPom Top 100 Wins 1

February+ March Record In Three Previous Years: 4-28
Total Postseason Wins In Last Three Years (conf. tourn. + otherwise): 0


The MAC is a midmajor conference, but it is not a bad conference. Kent State, Akron, Miami (OH) and Ohio U have all had success in the last 20 years.

It is incredibly difficult to recruit to OU, as you are competing with all of the midwest schools to begin with, but Groce was one of Matta's top guys (and his most respected recruiter), and has done a good job of hitting on Wake's favorite philosophy (i.e. Grobe) of diamonds in the rough the last few years with balanced classes that improve over time. He hits the trail hard, and there's little doubt he would be right back on Top 100 kids if he knew he had a shot at them.

The media is very impressed with the job Groce has done, especially this year, and Ohio usually largely ignores the Bobcats in the pecking order. If people are paying attention, there's a reason why.

Plus having two former OU coaches running our flagship programs whose names are separated by one letter would be pretty dope.
 
Jim Groce
Age: 40
4th Season as Collegiate Head Coach
NCAA Tournament Wins: 1

Jeff [Redacted]
Age: 59
9th Season as Collegiate Head Coach
NCAA Tournament Wins: 0
 
I'm not comparing him to [Redacted] at this point. I would not replace [Redacted] with Groce.

That league is sorry. If he truly was any good at recruiting he would have been able to have a better than that in his league.

I'm not comparing him to Painter or anyone else just with the peoepl in his league. If he can't outrecruit Akron, why would you think he could recruit with K or Gottfried or others in the ACC?
 
Hello said:
I think Stevens thought he had a shot at the IU job. That's clearly not the case now.
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NO no no NO.

10 year contract...coincides just about perfectly with a K retirement. Stevens is going to Duke.

Mark it down.

Unless UNC gets smart about Roy and then throws the bank at Stevens.
 
Smh at Chris Mooney. More bad years than good years.

Shaka, OTOH, is back near the top of a damn good mid-major league after losing the kitchen sink last year. He has bounced back much faster than I would have thought.
 
RJKarl said:
I'm not comparing him to [Redacted] at this point. I would not replace [Redacted] with Groce.

That league is sorry. If he truly was any good at recruiting he would have been able to have a better than that in his league.
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Then according to you Grobe didn't do all that well in that shitty conference and shouldn't have been worthy of the WF hire- Grobe finished 2nd once and no higher than 3rd the rest of his tenure.

Groce is doing a nice job of turning that program around- and he's only 40.

08-09: 15-17
09-10: 22-15
10-11: 19-16
current: 18-4
 
RJKarl said:
why would you think he could recruit with K or Gottfried or others in the ACC?
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Groce's done better, with less talent than Bzz has. Bzz couldn't recruit in the Big 12, and recruiting wise, he doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence as K or even Gottfried. You're argument against Groce would be a lot stronger if you weren't trying to defend Bzz.
 
RJ isn't a flaming liberal, yet 99% of his political posts are shit talk about Conservatives.

RJ isn't a Bzz apologist, yet 99% of his Wake Basketball posts are weak attempts and deflections to defend Bzz from criticism.
 
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