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If Eli Manning's name was Smith

qcdeac said:
Who gives a fuck? In his last 10 playoff games, he is 8-2 and has thrown 17 TDs and 5 interceptions. He steps up his game in the playoffs.
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End of thread. He's money when it counts.
 
KitchinDeac said:
Player A: 220.0 yds/game, 56.9 compl %, 4.1 TD%, 3.1 int%,
Player B: 231.0 yds/game, 58.5 compl %, 4.6 TD%, 3.4 int%
Player C: 238.5 yds/game, 63.3 compl %, 5.0 TD%, 2.8 int%
Player D: 254.7 yds/game, 63.4 compl %, 5.5 TD%, 2.0 int%
Player E: 199.6 yds/game, 61.5 compl %, 3.5 TD%, 3.0 int%
Player F: 211.2 yds/game, 63.2 compl %, 5.1 TD%, 2.6 int%

Rank these QBs: All have multiple SB rings. Career numbers above.
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You can't compare QBs from the 50s-80s to those of today. The game is dramatically different.

It's like comparing HR totals of the 1910s to the 1950s 0r 2010s.
 
qcdeac said:
I think you can compare Eli to Roethlisberger. Better than average QB who is rated highly because of 2 Super Bowl wins. I think playing in New York contributes more to his legacy than his last name.

In Giants 2 Super Bowl runs, Eli had 15 TDs and 2 Ints.
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Jose Offerman had .400 BA/.491 OBP in baseball playoffs. Carlos Delgado has a .757 Slg %.
 
If anything, being named "Smith" might've helped Eli more. It's not like Archie was some HOF QB. Two Pro Bowls is the high watermark for he who would beget Eli.
 
RJKarl said:
Jose Offerman had .400 BA/.491 OBP in baseball playoffs. Carlos Delgado has a .757 Slg %.
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Look, you are wrong. Your argument is so weak you have to go to another sport to support it. Eli is probably one of the worst QBs to have 2 Super Bowl rings. I will give you that.
 
KitchinDeac said:
Player A: 220.0 yds/game, 56.9 compl %, 4.1 TD%, 3.1 int%,
Player B: 231.0 yds/game, 58.5 compl %, 4.6 TD%, 3.4 int%
Player C: 238.5 yds/game, 63.3 compl %, 5.0 TD%, 2.8 int%
Player D: 254.7 yds/game, 63.4 compl %, 5.5 TD%, 2.0 int%
Player E: 199.6 yds/game, 61.5 compl %, 3.5 TD%, 3.0 int%
Player F: 211.2 yds/game, 63.2 compl %, 5.1 TD%, 2.6 int%

Rank these QBs: All have multiple SB rings. Career numbers above.
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Dunno whose numbers these are, but there is also a difference in eras. I think the 2 time + SB QBs are: Starr, Griese, Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, Plunkett, Aikman, Elway, Brady, Rapistberger and Eli. I'd rate them as follows: Montana, Brady, Elway, Aikman, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Manning, Rapistberger, Griese and Plunkett. That Plunkett has 2 rings, and Dilfer, Rypien and Hostetler each have 1 proves QBs usually get too much credit for wins and too much blame in losses.
 
cville deac said:
Dunno whose numbers these are, but there is also a difference in eras. I think the 2 time + SB QBs are: Starr, Griese, Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, Plunkett, Aikman, Elway, Brady, Rapistberger and Eli. I'd rate them as follows: Montana, Brady, Elway, Aikman, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Manning, Rapistberger, Griese and Plunkett. That Plunkett has 2 rings, and Dilfer, Rypien and Hostetler each have 1 proves QBs usually get too much credit for wins and too much blame in losses.
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I did not include Bradshaw, Starr, Staubach, Griese or Plunkett in my list above.
 
94Deac said:
If anything, being named "Smith" might've helped Eli more. It's not like Archie was some HOF QB. Two Pro Bowls is the high watermark for he who would beget Eli.
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True, but Archie was a heck of a QB. Put him in Pittsburgh and that inbred cajun Bradshaw on the 70s Saints, and Papa Manning prolly has 4 rings while Bradshaw is stirring a roux for gumbo somewhere in Louisiana.
 
cville deac said:
True, but Archie was a heck of a QB. Put him in Pittsburgh and that inbred cajun Bradshaw on the 70s Saints, and Papa Manning prolly has 4 rings while Bradshaw is stirring a roux for gumbo somewhere in Louisiana.
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Well, not sure about shots at Bradshaw, but Manning was certainly held in esteem by his contemporaries. But I took the OP as implying that Eli's fame and favor was due to his family name. And in that case, as career numbers bear (just numbers, not reputation), Archie really wasn't tearing up the record books.
 
qcdeac said:
Look, you are wrong. Your argument is so weak you have to go to another sport to support it. Eli is probably one of the worst QBs to have 2 Super Bowl rings. I will give you that.
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My argument is not weak.

I notice you don't talk about his other playoff games. 113, 161, 169 yards with 6 Ints, 2 Tds.

My bad only his good stuff counts and you have excuses for him in those games.
 
94Deac said:
Well, not sure about shots at Bradshaw, but Manning was certainly held in esteem by his contemporaries. But I took the OP as implying that Eli's fame and favor was due to his family name. And in that case, as career numbers bear (just numbers, not reputation), Archie really wasn't tearing up the record books.
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Not saying Bradshaw was a bad QB, though it does appear he has shiite for brains. What I am saying is that Archie was of approximately the same caliber as Bradshaw - both were above average, legit franchise QBs. But Archie played for the worst team of that decade and got pummeled, whereas Bradshaw played with maybe the best sustained defense over a 5-10 year period of time and had great OLs and 2 HOF WRs.
 
KitchinDeac said:
Player A: 220.0 yds/game, 56.9 compl %, 4.1 TD%, 3.1 int%,
Player B: 231.0 yds/game, 58.5 compl %, 4.6 TD%, 3.4 int%
Player C: 238.5 yds/game, 63.3 compl %, 5.0 TD%, 2.8 int%
Player D: 254.7 yds/game, 63.4 compl %, 5.5 TD%, 2.0 int%
Player E: 199.6 yds/game, 61.5 compl %, 3.5 TD%, 3.0 int%
Player F: 211.2 yds/game, 63.2 compl %, 5.1 TD%, 2.6 int%

Rank these QBs: All have multiple SB rings. Career numbers above.
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Based just on those number, I'd go with this. Of course teammates great influence the numbers above but...

Player D: 254.7 yds/game, 63.4 compl %, 5.5 TD%, 2.0 int% 1
Player C: 238.5 yds/game, 63.3 compl %, 5.0 TD%, 2.8 int% 2
Player F: 211.2 yds/game, 63.2 compl %, 5.1 TD%, 2.6 int% 3
Player E: 199.6 yds/game, 61.5 compl %, 3.5 TD%, 3.0 int% 4
Player B: 231.0 yds/game, 58.5 compl %, 4.6 TD%, 3.4 int% 5
Player A: 220.0 yds/game, 56.9 compl %, 4.1 TD%, 3.1 int%, 6
 
If he was just a guy named Eli Smith? Hmmm. That's pretty interesting. I think his father, Morty Smith, is a really good salesman. One of those guys who can sell a dick to a nun. But he's always out there selling, can't get enough of that adrenaline, certainly doesn't have time for young Eli Smith. Sure, Eli Smith's got his mom, Deborah, and his sister, Eileen, and they're great women who mean the world to him, but the lack of a real male role model makes life hard on the youngster.

Eventually, Eli Smith tries out football. He wants to impress his father, he's sick of begging for his attention through phone calls and birthday cards, he has to do something great. He throws the ball around day after day, steadily improving his craft. But he forgot one important thing. Morty Smith is 5 foot 1 and Deborah Smith is 4 foot 9. Young Eli stands taller than both by the age of 12, but he's still just 5 foot 3 by the time he hits high school. He gets laughed off the field. Three months later, all Morty's roadside meals of Cheetos and vodka catch up with him. He dies right in the middle of an Exxon parking lot.

Eli Smith sits in a church, his father's casket right in front of him, he looks at his notes one last time and gets ready to deliver a eulogy. He doesn't know if there's an afterlife, but he's got to take one more shot at making his father proud. He must convince himself that Morty's sitting on a cloud, hanging on his son's every word for the first time in his existence. Eli Smith gets up to the podium, looks out on the seats, and sees that no one is there. It's Super Bowl Sunday. Who cares about a crotchety old salesman on day like today? The End.
 
Eli won 2 SBs by leading the Giants on clutch do or die drives at the very end. That pretty much cements your legacy.
 
RJKarl said:
My argument is not weak.

I notice you don't talk about his other playoff games. 113, 161, 169 yards with 6 Ints, 2 Tds.

My bad only his good stuff counts and you have excuses for him in those games.
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Where did I make excuses for Eli's bad playoff games, moron?
 
The reality is he's as inconsistent in the playoffs as he is during the regular season. He's all or nothing.
 
RJKarl said:
My argument is not weak.

I notice you don't talk about his other playoff games. 113, 161, 169 yards with 6 Ints, 2 Tds.

My bad only his good stuff counts and you have excuses for him in those games.
Click to expand...

2011:
23 of 32 (71.9%) for 277, 3 TDs, 0 INT
21 of 33 (63.6%) for 330, 3 TDs, 1 INT
32 of 58 (55.2%) for 316, 2 TDs, 0 INT
30 of 40 (75%) for 296, 1 TD, 0 INT

2008:
15 of 29 (51.7%) for 169, 0 TDs, 2 INTs

2007:
20 of 27 (74.1%) for 185, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
12 of 18 (66.7%) for 163, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
21 of 40 (52.5%) for 251, 0 TDs, 0 INTs
19 of 34 (55.9%) for 255, 2 TDs, 0 INTs

2006:
16 of 27 (59.3%) for 161, 2 TDs, 1 INT

2005:
10 of 18 (55.6%) for 113, 0 TDs, 3 INTs


I don't know how you can look at these playoff game statistics and say Eli Manning is not a talented QB. His 2005 line is atrocious, yes, but that was 9 years and 2 Super Bowls ago. The receivers that caught passes for him in 2005? Jeremy Shockey (3), Amani Toomer (3), Tiki Barber (3), and Visanthe Shiancoe (1).

Editted to laugh at your previous post that Eli has been as inconsistent in the playoffs as he has been in the regular season. I see 2 bad games out of 11.
 
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