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Is there any NSA news that would surprise you at this point?

BobStackFan4Life said:
It will be if they launch an investigation against your dealer and decide to take a closer look at what you've been up to, to see who else you've been talking to.
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But, the police have been able to do this for decades. If they were investigating a suspected drug dealer, they could surveil his home around the clock. They could document who comes and goes from his place, look at the license plates and ID them, etc. All without a warrant. They could get a warrant and subpoena the phone company to give them the records of me calling on an old timey rotary phone.

I'm not saying I like it, but as a criminal I can say I don't see much difference. I still commit my crime the same way I always have. The technology has changed, and the methods have changed, but the end result is still basically the same. I guess the gov has the data already in their possession now...
 
WakeandBake said:
But, the police have been able to do this for decades.
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I didn't say otherwise. I'm just saying if your dealer falls under suspicion there's always the chance they might take an interest in what you've been up to as well. You stated, "Who I call and where I surf on the internet isn't interesting to anyone nor is it incriminating."
That's just flat out wrong. There are a lot of people who would be very interested in what you're up to- their job is to catch and punish you. And it's not like there's a shortage of stories of people thinking they weren't doing anything wrong, or doing something very minor, who end up getting hammered once they get caught up in our often unjust legal system.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
I didn't say otherwise. I'm just saying if your dealer falls under suspicion there's always the chance they might take an interest in what you've been up to as well. You stated, "Who I call and where I surf on the internet isn't interesting to anyone nor is it incriminating."
That's just flat out wrong. There are a lot of people who would be very interested in what you're up to- their job is to catch and punish you. And it's not like there's a shortage of stories of people thinking they weren't doing anything wrong, or doing something very minor, who end up getting hammered once they get caught up in our often unjust legal system.
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ok, fair enough. I'm just not that paranoid I guess. But my 1/4 ounce of weed a month is a misdemeanor. If the government wants to use all these resources to nail me for that then I guess Im fucked. Im just saying they have always, always, been able to do all the things you are describing. Again, not happy about it, but nothing new.
 
WakeandBake said:
ok, fair enough. I'm just not that paranoid I guess. But my 1/4 ounce of weed a month is a misdemeanor. If the government wants to use all these resources to nail me for that then I guess Im fucked. Im just saying they have always, always, been able to do all the things you are describing. Again, not happy about it, but nothing new.
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And if shit ever gets real just move to Uruguay (provided you're not placed on a no fly list), where the government just set the price at $1 a gram.
Uruguay-cannabis-011.jpg

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/22/uruguay-legal-cannabis-1-dollar-gram
 
I don't think anyone disagrees that there needs to be better rules and oversight.
 
If no one disagrees, why hasn't it happened? Opportunities have occurred in the distant and recent past and are available now. It doesn't seem like we've acted wisely. The linked article presents a pretty good history of allowing the Intelligence Community to run itself and our failure in instituting better rules and oversight.
 
MBStretch said:
An Intelligence Community checked only by limited and not fully informed oversight/governance and supported by a fearful citizenry becomes more and more dangerous:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/12/16/131216fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=all

(Yes, it is very long!)
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Olsen, and Obama, had saved Bush’s surveillance program. It was the first in a series of decisions by Obama to institutionalize some of the most controversial national-security policies of the Bush Administration.
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Any doubts about the new Administration’s position were removed when Obama turned down a second chance to stop the N.S.A. from collecting domestic phone records. The business-records provision of the Patriot Act was up for renewal, and Congress wanted to know the Administration’s position.
It was one thing to have the Justice Department defend the program in court. But now Obama had to decide whether he would publicly embrace a section of the Patriot Act that he had criticized in his most famous speech and that he had tried to rewrite as a senator. He would have to do so knowing that the main government program authorized by the business-records provision was beset by problems. On September 14th, Obama publicly revealed that he wanted the provision renewed without any changes.
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Obama also became more determined to keep the programs secret. On January 5, 2010, Holder informed Wyden that the Administration wouldn’t reveal to the public details about the N.S.A.’s programs.
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Good article.
 
Don't misunderstand me, I think it sucks and Obama is a huge disappointment. I just don't sit around wringing my hands over it and I am, according to the law, a criminal threat to society.
 
WakeandBake said:
Don't misunderstand me, I think it sucks and Obama is a huge disappointment. I just don't sit around wringing my hands over it and I am, according to the law, a criminal threat to society.
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Yup.
 
That is a good and generally enlightening policy, but I'm not sure what money we should follow in this case. The Intelligence Community seems to do some of these things because it can, i.e. has the technical capabilities, but I'm not sure the "why" is money-driven in this case. What am I missing?

Edit to add: Responding to "follow the money".
 
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I was referring to budget dollars earmarked for homeland security in the form of jobs and contracts. Sorta like the DEA not really wanting to change drug war policy.
 
Did anyone else watch the NSA "story" on 60 Minutes last night? Basically it was a 20-minute ad plant brought to us by our federal government marketed as a "rare look inside the NSA" about how Snowden was the devil, the NSA rarely does anything wrong, and anything that is done wrong is an honest mistake in the name of security. They even showed some clown running phone trace trees who had the audacity to say that even though he can see domestic phone numbers, he can't see the names of who those phones belong to, just the numbers themselves. Do they actually think anyone believes this shit?
 
I've heard similar stories. The NSA defense seems to be "we're really good people and we're trying really hard not to violate your rights."
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Did anyone else watch the NSA "story" on 60 Minutes last night? Basically it was a 20-minute ad plant brought to us by our federal government marketed as a "rare look inside the NSA" about how Snowden was the devil, the NSA rarely does anything wrong, and anything that is done wrong is an honest mistake in the name of security. They even showed some clown running phone trace trees who had the audacity to say that even though he can see domestic phone numbers, he can't see the names of who those phones belong to, just the numbers themselves. Do they actually think anyone believes this shit?
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The laws have to be changed, but that is how the data about phone calls works. They are doing exactly the same thing the phone companies are doing.

By the way, Snowden is blackmailing the US and has made our nation weaker.
 
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