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It is flat out a lack of talent

If anything, that emoji of the smiley running around in circles is the best metaphor for the sports board
 
I'll go ahead and throw my vote in as someone who doesn't think this team lacks that much talent. This team doesn't have much less talent than Pittsburgh does and they're a top 10 KenPom team.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I'll go ahead and throw my vote in as someone who doesn't think this team lacks that much talent. This team doesn't have much less talent than Pittsburgh does and they're a top 10 KenPom team.
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We have talent but no size. Pitt looked like an SEC football team compared to us. If Bz had started Moto and Tree today we would have kept it much closer defensively in the first half. Unfortunately our best offensive players are our biggest defensive liabilities. Most specifically this is true for Devin when he's up against a true center.
 
1976Deac said:
I think Devon Thomas is sa econd-team All ACC caliber player, and might be first team with a better-coached team to support him.
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You think he's the best player at his position with a better coach?

I think he's good, but not that good.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
We'll have to revisit this at the end of the year. Here are the three respective stats of Howard, CMM, Devin in their sophomore year (obviously Devin and CMM's stats are not complete since they're only three games into the ACC):

27.2 mpg 13.6 points 49.0% FG% 1.8 APG 5.9 RPG 1.1 BPG 2.0 SPG
25.9 mpg 10.7 points 51.7% FG% 1.5 APG 8.9 RPG 0.7 BPG 0.5 SPG
32.9 mpg 15.9 points 46.7% FG% 3.9 APG 3.3 RPG 0.1 BPG 1.0 SPG

They're all in the same group I think. You guys can figure out who is who. I think it's relatively easy to pick oiut, but if not it goes to show that they're all roughly equivalent.
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Um, yeah... the numbers for CMM and Devin are padded from a crazy easy schedule to this point.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Devin also just had 17 and 9 against one of the most physical teams in the country.
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He's also laid many eggs against good teams. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out before throwing out numbers and comparing him to JHo.
 
Other people were talking about it and I even included the caveat that Devin is only three games into the ACC season. Those stats don't even include today's game, his stats will improve after today.

His most notable bad game was Tennessee who has an extremely physical team, but all-in-all I anticipate that Devin will have similar stats to Howard's sophomore year. People on here somehow undervalue Devin. I guess it's because people want to downplay any accomplishments the team has, but this board absolutely does not give credit for what Devin accomplishes inside.
 
LOL - Numbers, man. Let's just wait and see. For as good as Devin played today, he spent the first couple minutes of the game sulking and ultimately let the crowd get to his head, picked up two boneheaded frustrationfouls late, and fouled out with 5+ minutes to go in the game. i don't doubt that Devin has a ton of talent. Even in games where he's played badly, that's never been a question. Let's see if he can keep his head in the rest of the season. That was, is, and will always be key with him. More of that right hand and developing a jumper wouldn't hurt, but he'll be All-ACC caliber, even without much improvement, if he can lay off the emotion a bit.
 
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Wakeforest22890 said:
Devin also just had 17 and 9 against one of the most physical teams in the country.
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Which could just be because there's no one else on the team and someone has to score/rebound at some point. The point I was making was that the sample set is WAY too limited and then you go and use a sample set of 1. :bowrofl:
 
We have missed athleticism in out lineup since Teague. Our players are athletic, but not in the attack the rim and throw it home kind of way. We miss that badly. I'm hoping that in a couple of years, McClinton can give us some of that from the SF position. We just need that badly (paging Harry Giles). We have a PG next year. Really need some ups on this squad though.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
I don't know how good (bad) Buzz is with the X's and O's. For all I know he might be a damned genius. What I do know is the kids he has recruited to play here are not ACC caliber players. They might be fine young men...they might be full of character but they have no business playing in the best conference in America. If our goal going forward is to field a team of solid citizens independent of basketball talent we need to drop down to DII.
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You lost me at "best conference in America"... Check the latest AP Top 25. If not for the newbie Syracuse, the ACC would be collectively somewhere below the Horizon League. It is a joke this year.
 
If a blind draft was done of all ACC players, I don't think you would see that many Wake players go in the top half.
 
I disagree with the premise of this thread. We have solid talent and if they were coached to be fundamentally sound and knew where to be and what to do in many specific game situations they could win in this league. Top 4 maybe not but certainly easily top half. Yesterday's game was the best example I have seen in a long time of a well coached team with decent but not top level talent vs. a poorly coached team with similar talent. Pitt ran on both ends of the court almost every time like a machine. Always knowing what to do under a given circumstance. We ran what looked like real offense and defense about every 4th time down the court. It was crystal clear what a good coach can mean to a team these days.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Other people were talking about it and I even included the caveat that Devin is only three games into the ACC season. Those stats don't even include today's game, his stats will improve after today.

His most notable bad game was Tennessee who has an extremely physical team, but all-in-all I anticipate that Devin will have similar stats to Howard's sophomore year. People on here somehow undervalue Devin. I guess it's because people want to downplay any accomplishments the team has, but this board absolutely does not give credit for what Devin accomplishes inside.
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I'd say 2 points, 3 rebounds, and 4 turnovers against UVA is a pretty notable bad game. People not giving Devin credit is probably a reaction to other posters comparing him to guys like Josh Howard, who was clearly on a whole different level. Not only are the current numbers padded by bad competition, but it's a lot harder to put up those numbers when your competition for shots is ROK, Songaila, Dawson, Hicks, and Scott rather than CMM, McKie, Coron, and Cavanaugh.

BTW, Howard had 4.7 Win Shares in 2001, good for 1st on the team and 10th in the ACC. Devin has 1.4, which puts him 4th on the team and not even within shouting range of the top 20 in the conference.

ETA: In Devin's defense, I will say that Howard had two very good coaches to aid and foster his development. The fact that Devin has had to suffer under Bz as not only his head coach, but (IIRC) his big-man coach as well is perhaps the greatest handicap any Wake Forest player has ever had to labor under, and the fact that he's accomplished as much as he has in spite of that limitation is a testament to him.
 
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You must be able to shoot to win in the ACC. Period. We have one player who can shoot from outside consistently. And, now, he is struggling to get his shot off.
 
coredeac said:
You must be able to shoot to win in the ACC. Period. We have one player who can shoot from outside consistently. And, now, he is struggling to get his shot off.
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I've seen this written this several times regarding Coron and an inability to get off his shot. I've seen every game this year, except for the end of the game yesterday, and I have yet to see him struggle to get his shot off. He has not had a 3 pointer blocked. In fact, in ACC games he is our leading scorer. He is averaging over 6 three point attempts per game in the 3 ACC games and is shooting 37% from 3.
 
Wake Forest basketball history is riddled with sagas of the bigs who seem invincible during the pre-season and disappear during ACC play. After Gil McGregor, how many centers failed to live up to what many Wake fans thought were the answer to overtaking UNC - Cal Stamp, Peterson, Larry Harrison, Jim Johnstone, Loren Woods to name a few.

This is to say, the jury is still out on Devin.

As I recall, Josh Howard didn't become a break out star until his senior season. He had the ability to drive from the outside and take it all the way to the rim. I think he could hit a jump shot or two to keep teams honest. And he could handle the ball (Aminu wished he could have done the same). As such, I don't think using Josh is a good example for comparison.
 
oldmandeac said:
This is to say, the jury is still out on Devin.

As I recall, Josh Howard didn't become a break out star until his senior season. He had the ability to drive from the outside and take it all the way to the rim. I think he could hit a jump shot or two to keep teams honest. And he could handle the ball (Aminu wished he could have done the same). As such, I don't think using Josh is a good example for comparison.
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I believe the comments were about Devin having star potential, which I think he has if he keeps playing like yesterday. It's obviously in his genes given his sister's abilities.

I agree about JoHo...and that's why some made the comparison. JoHo had star potential his sophomore year and really exploded his senior year. He wasn't like Teague, JJ, Paul, Rogers, Duncan, Chill who were obviously above everyone else as sophs. IIRC one of the reasons he got recognition that year was his defensive presence. He wasn't on his all-ACC freshman team like Devin and the ACC was much smaller compared to this year making it harder to be one of the top 10 players. No Miami, BC, Pitt, Cuse or ND and we still played everyone twice.
 
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