It is flat out a lack of talent

[VaDeac]

Howard was a star his junior year. He would have gone pro after that year had he not lost so much time to the high ankle sprain.

 

[TopHat]

Seems like most have roughly the same feeling; we don't have a super star and we don't have a ton of 2 way players. We also have an upper middle level of talent (we aren't VPI/Miami or Dook/Cuse).

I just can't possibly believe it's "a complete lack of talent" that is a little strong. We have comparable talent to Pitt/UVA/Clemson and other middle grade programs. It isn't a complete lack of talent it's a lack of coaching. It's Bz.

 

[Haros]

If a blind draft was done of all ACC players, I don't think you would see that many Wake players go in the top half.

This was the whole point of the thread. Assuming there isn't much disagreement, it should settle the argument here as well.

Could we get 6th by seriously overachieving with a great (different) coach? Maybe, let's even say yes for the sake of argument. But the fact somewhere in that range is our upside speaks to the point that our talent level (stars/depth/combination thereof) isn't close to good enough to make us relevant.

 

[coredeac]

I've seen this written this several times regarding Coron and an inability to get off his shot. I've seen every game this year, except for the end of the game yesterday, and I have yet to see him struggle to get his shot off. He has not had a 3 pointer blocked. In fact, in ACC games he is our leading scorer. He is averaging over 6 three point attempts per game in the 3 ACC games and is shooting 37% from 3.

As I said. We have one and he struggles at times. But, I'm glad the AD officially weighed in on this. Thanks.

You obviously weren't paying too close attention yesterday as there was more than once he shot the ball off-balance. But, you know everything and I'm not going to argue on a gorgeous Sunday afternoon.

 

[Why the Deac Not]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. We have solid talent and if they were coached to be fundamentally sound and knew where to be and what to do in many specific game situations they could win in this league. Top 4 maybe not but certainly easily top half. Yesterday's game was the best example I have seen in a long time of a well coached team with decent but not top level talent vs. a poorly coached team with similar talent. Pitt ran on both ends of the court almost every time like a machine. Always knowing what to do under a given circumstance. We ran what looked like real offense and defense about every 4th time down the court. It was crystal clear what a good coach can mean to a team these days.

Pitt still managed to shoot almost 50%. Wake cant shoot against a decent defensive team. Until that changes, we will continue to suck against good teams.

 

[Ayo]

You cannot win consistently without good shooters and good rebounders. We have neither. Bottom line. The 2016 class's ceiling is a bubble team with a good coach. I'd be pretty surprised if we make the NCAA Tourney with the 2016 class.

 

[Why the Deac Not]

Seems like most have roughly the same feeling; we don't have a super star and we don't have a ton of 2 way players. We also have an upper middle level of talent (we aren't VPI/Miami or Dook/Cuse).

I just can't possibly believe it's "a complete lack of talent" that is a little strong. We have comparable talent to Pitt/UVA/Clemson and other middle grade programs. It isn't a complete lack of talent it's a lack of coaching. It's Bz.

I didn't see comparable talent to the Hoos on the floor in C'ville. We were outclassed, out-shot, outplayed and out coached. I doubt our talent level, even with G-Mac healthy, would rival that of Pitt. Athleticism or otherwise.

I didnt bother watching the Pitt game but I don't buy it.

 

[Rafi]

You cannot win consistently without good shooters and good rebounders. We have neither.

You don't think Devin is a good rebounder?

 

[Ayo]

You don't think Devin is a good rebounder?

Rebounders. Plural. Devin is a good rebounder. You can expect 9 boards a game from him. He can't do it all himself though, and we will continue to get demolished on the boards until we get more size.

 

[Rafi]

Rebounders. Plural. Devin is a good rebounder. You can expect 9 boards a game from him. He can't do it all himself though, and we will continue to get demolished on the boards until we get more size.

Gotcha. That was a bit confusing.

I think Moto and Travis could be good rebounders, and Cav and Andre could be decent as well. Who knows with Daniel Green, but he has the size. I think rebounding, and defense in general, could be quickly turned around by a good coach.

 

[Ayo]

The gameplan to beat Wake is quite simple:

1. Clog the paint to limit penetration to the basket and force us to take jump shots
2. Get back on defense to stop our fast break offense
3. Take care of the ball

No matter what offense is run, you're going to score points against a Buzz-coached defense, as long as you take care of the ball. Throw in a reasonably competent coach and do these things, and you should beat Wake most of the time.

 

[TopHat]

I didn't see comparable talent to the Hoos on the floor in C'ville. We were outclassed, out-shot, outplayed and out coached. I doubt our talent level, even with G-Mac healthy, would rival that of Pitt. Athleticism or otherwise.

I didnt bother watching the Pitt game but I don't buy it.

As far as average start rating goes Pitt is 9th in the ACC and Wake Forest is 11th. Incomparable though is Bz and Dixon. That's by far the bigger difference.

 

[deaconson]

Howard was a star his junior year. He would have gone pro after that year had he not lost so much time to the high ankle sprain.

this. howard made the jump between sophomore year and early jr year. that high ankle sprain jr year derailed his season and might have brought him back for his sr year.

 

[chill43]

It is a total lack of talent. Which leads back to being able to recruit or see talent. Skip could flat out recruit, and as Odom could find hidden talent. I would bet that buzz knows x and o better than either, but he can not bring the players to win in the ACC. He has to g o.

 

[deacvision7]

It is a total lack of talent. Which leads back to being able to recruit or see talent. Skip could flat out recruit, and as Odom could find hidden talent. I would bet that buzz knows x and o better than either, but he can not bring the players to win in the ACC. He has to g o.

the myth continues...

 

[BeachBumDeac]

It is a total lack of talent. Which leads back to being able to recruit or see talent. Skip could flat out recruit, and as Odom could find hidden talent. I would bet that buzz knows x and o better than either, but he can not bring the players to win in the ACC. He has to g o.

Why would you bet that?

 

[pinochadeac]

the myth continues...

This.

I feel like people say that he is an X and o's master because he must be good at something. He clearly is not a communicator or a recruiter, so it must be the x and os. Unfortunately, he is bad at that too.

 

[TopHat]

This.

I feel like people say that he is an X and o's master because he must be good at something. He clearly is not a communicator or a recruiter, so it must be the x and os. Unfortunately, he is bad at that too.

Yup. Only solid game plan I have seen was UNC, which was pretty much collapse guards and foul them on the floor opposed to letting them get out and run. Where exactly has BZ had success?

Air force seems like an anomaly, as he inherited the most talent-rich Air Force squad in recent memory.

 

[WakeForestRanger]

A good X and O coach virtually always beats less talented teams and pulls upsets against more talented teams. Bz doesn't do that.

 

[Why the Deac Not]

As far as average start rating goes Pitt is 9th in the ACC and Wake Forest is 11th. Incomparable though is Bz and Dixon. That's by far the bigger difference.

Uh huh. What thee hayell is that?

Seriously, Buzz sucks at recruiting, motivating and in-game adjustments. We've got two ACC-level players who might see significant minutes or start. Coron is a serviceable rotation guy but a transfer. Cav and MJ could be decent role players but they have limitations. Moto is a good athlete but can barely hit the broadside of a barn from 6 feet. Puhhlease.