LAST US POW RETURNED from the Taliban

[Milhouse]

There are days when I think the Obama administration could invade Israel and RJ would find a way to defend it.

while simultaneously blaming bush

 

[Biff Tannen]

I'm shocked that something went wrong in a war.

 

[89DeaconMike]

We've traded spies with USSR. Reagan traded guns and money for hostages.

We make a promise to every person who enlists in our military and their families. That promise is we leave no one behind.

We also have been in negotiations with the Taliban to peacefully re-enter the Afghani scene for many years. This could also be an olive branch from us.

This isn't perfect. It would be incredibly simplistic to think there's nothing going on behind the scenes here.

Obviously two countries exchanging spies is exactly the same thing as releasing war criminals wanted by the UN.

 

[FuckmouthedRube]

Not just PR. I'm wondering how this plan was ever given the green light? How did anyone think this wouldn't be almost universally negatively received?

The "official" stories about Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch got destroyed well before social media had taken off, so it's bizarre that the administration would try to suppress a story for five years without knowing multiple parties with direct involvement wouldn't speak up eventually to get their own version of events on the record.

 

[94Deac]

Well, the notion that he walked off post and said "Fuck America" did come out when he disappeared. They definitely knew he wasn't plucked away while on a mission or some kind of drive-up kidnapping.

 

[ONW]

94, what's your theory on why we did this?

 

[jimbob]

Well, the notion that he walked off post and said "Fuck America" did come out when he disappeared. They definitely knew he wasn't plucked away while on a mission or some kind of drive-up kidnapping.

Agreed with this 100 percent. They knew it was public information that this guy was far from Captain America if not the complete opposite. I'm more receptive to the idea that Barack said regardless of what happened and how he got in enemy hands I can't wind this war "down/end" without bringing him back.

I just think the short term gain of bringing him back invites a ton of uncertainty in the future because his story spotlights questions politicians have refused to acknowledge even exist for years.

1) Mental health and the suicide numbers of Iraq and Afghan veterans are insanely high and have not been adequately addressed at all (also see Va scandal ).
2) Afghanistan is still and will be for the foreseeable future very much dependent on American resources money and security presence which is outlined pretty clearly in the proposed BSA
3) The Taliban are also a crucial factor in Afghanistans future after ten years of fighting there is every intention to attempt to peacefully integrate them into the Afghan government( a hopelessly idealistic goal.)

 

[dmcheatw]

well if a mentally deranged soldier left his post, if i'm one of the top brass, i'm not sending an entire brigade (and therefore millions and millions of dollars) to find one guy. Hate other men were killed, but they were given bad orders IMO.

please don't read this as a defense of the mental guy, just the idiocy of fighting these types of wars more than anything.

 

[94Deac]

94, what's your theory on why we did this?

I truly believe someone around the White House pitched and sold the idea that this would be a good thing. For 5 years the Taliban has held and American soldier. Public sentiment regarding the military involvement in Afghanistan and Gitmo has certainly waned and Obama has created a solid pull-out schedule for troop withdrawals. I think someone saw this is as a punchlist item to be taken care of before we close up shop. Take that message and let someone with charisma and persuasion start pitching around and here we are.

Other than that, I simply have no idea why someone thought this would work. You simply don't have a sympathetic captive here. This isn't a case like Rhonda Cornum or Scott Speicher (had he lived); those are highly sympathetic captives. Underwent horrific treatments in the name of their country. This guy walked away from his. I get the egalitarian appeal of a gesture of humanity. But that only works in intellectual and erudite circles, hardly what anyone could characterize the collective American consciousness.

dmcheat: Where did mental illness come into this?

 

[dmcheatw]

well, i just assumed based on his actions he was mentally ill at the time, since what he did is not sane.

 

[94Deac]

well, i just assumed based on his actions he was mentally ill at the time, since what he did is not sane.

I'd say your assumptions are pretty well off base here. He made a choice to leave base and go help the Afghanis. Not the first time an American has done that. John Walker Lindh was either the first or most prominent do do something similar, though he was a civilian, not military. No evidence at all that Bergdahl had mental issues.

 

[ONW]

I truly believe someone around the White House pitched and sold the idea that this would be a good thing. For 5 years the Taliban has held and American soldier. Public sentiment regarding the military involvement in Afghanistan and Gitmo has certainly waned and Obama has created a solid pull-out schedule for troop withdrawals. I think someone saw this is as a punchlist item to be taken care of before we close up shop. Take that message and let someone with charisma and persuasion start pitching around and here we are.

Other than that, I simply have no idea why someone thought this would work. You simply don't have a sympathetic captive here. This isn't a case like Rhonda Cornum or Scott Speicher (had he lived); those are highly sympathetic captives. Underwent horrific treatments in the name of their country. This guy walked away from his. I get the egalitarian appeal of a gesture of humanity. But that only works in intellectual and erudite circles, hardly what anyone could characterize the collective American consciousness.

dmcheat: Where did mental illness come into this?

Pretty much agreed.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

Agreed with this 100 percent. They knew it was public information that this guy was far from Captain America if not the complete opposite. I'm more receptive to the idea that Barack said regardless of what happened and how he got in enemy hands I can't wind this war "down/end" without bringing him back.

I just think the short term gain of bringing him back invites a ton of uncertainty in the future because his story spotlights questions politicians have refused to acknowledge even exist for years.

1) Mental health and the suicide numbers of Iraq and Afghan veterans are insanely high and have not been adequately addressed at all (also see Va scandal ).
2) Afghanistan is still and will be for the foreseeable future very much dependent on American resources money and security presence which is outlined pretty clearly in the proposed BSA
3) The Taliban are also a crucial factor in Afghanistans future after ten years of fighting there is every intention to attempt to peacefully integrate them into the Afghan government( a hopelessly idealistic goal.)

Yeah, I definitely remember that this guy went AWOL. I disagree with the idea that we need to bring back every POW. It's different if they essentially defect. From the looks of it, he never should've been used as negotiating leverage.

Regarding suicide rates, the Army has looked into potentially every cause and reason and cannot make any strong conclusions. I know for a fact they've been busting their ass trying to figure it out. My guess is they are unable to make any concrete conclusions because the reasons are largely cultural and moral. Suicide is a more acceptable option these days than it was when people still went to church, basically.*

*EDIT: Since I have been harangued for this last statement, let me clarify. As of about a year ago, when I spoke rather extensively on the subject with somebody in a position of authority who had been tasked with trying to find an answer to the Army's suicide epidemic, they had looked at about all the tangibles you can think of when examining the suicides. Race, income, mental health, deployment times, etc... They had found no notable patterns. There is also nothing in particular about Afghanistan and Iraq that makes it more traumatizing than previous wars. What they hadn't examined, and probably because it's a bit impossible to measure, are the intangible things-- the cultural and moral things. Perhaps I was too flippant when I said "when people still went to church." It was an attempt to summarize something that can't be summarized easily. But since it apparently isn't something that can be measured, and since mental health is diagnosed and treated much better than it was during past wars, about the only logical conclusion one can make is there has been a shift in the culture (cue talk of culture change). We have seen a lot of it since the last major engagement 40+ years ago. It is hardly controversial to consider the possibility that with the positive changes, we have also seen some negative changes to individual attitudes, family support systems, and matters pertaining to self-discipline, all of which would be factors in a decision to commit suicide.

 

[Biff Tannen]

One problem with not bringing him back is they cut off his head and march around Afghanistan with it on a stick. Talk about bad PR.

 

[ThinkingWithMyDeac]

Apparently over the last decade those held captive have been training for the Jihad Olympics.

 

[DeaconSig]

I'd hate to compete with those guys in a beard-growing contest.

 

[19deac92]

Apparently over the last decade those held captive have been training for the Jihad Olympics.

At least two of these shitheads are notable for having killed a lot of Shiites along the way. Accordingly, they are not very popular with another brand of shitheads.

Perhaps we can tip off Jaysh Al Mahdi or some other Shiite fun bunch to let them know the wheres and the whens of the exchange of these douchebags. A little natural selection might follow.

 

[WakeandBake]

Some of you guys are just political clowns.

From a guy in Bergdahl's unit, who is indignant and angry and has the right to be: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-guy-who-walked-off-in-the-dead-of-night.html

He also understands why this decision was made now: https://twitter.com/inthesedeserts

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." - Fitzgerald

this

 

[WFFaithful]

moar obama suckitude

 

[BeachBumDeac]

Regarding suicide rates, the Army has looked into potentially every cause and reason and cannot make any strong conclusions. I know for a fact they've been busting their ass trying to figure it out. My guess is they are unable to make any concrete conclusions because the reasons are largely cultural and moral. Suicide is a more acceptable option these days than it was when people still went to church, basically.

Wow, seriously?