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Luck/Manning/Newton

DeacsOrDie said:
Yes, yall are right, but some others posting here are absolutely writing newton off...again, like previously stated, this is a futuristic thread and would like to get yalls opinions on newton/luck/manning...obviously manning is one of the best ever, but ppl are saying luck has the ceiling to be better than manning, however, lucks ceiling is not even higher than newtons. Luck vs. newton is a better argument, but luck hasnt stepped foot.
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IMHO both will be great and perennial pro-bowlers. A lot of what is around them(talent, coaching staff, etc...) will make all the difference. If Peyton ever had a decent defense and good coaching staff, then I think he would have the same amount of SB's that Brady has.

The Panthers and Colts both have a lot of rebuilding to do. The Colts need youth at Oline, WR's, TE's. They need defensive lineman, Linebackers, and a Secondary. They don't even have a legit RB. They literally have next to nothing.

The Panthers need some good youthful WR's. They have a lot of offensive talent right now so at least a majority of that side of the ball is ok going forward. They need a lot of defensive help. They need defensive tackles badly. I hope Jon Beason can get healthy again because he is a special talent but they need someone to play along side of him. As for their secondary , it is downright terrible. Gamble is decent but the rest of the secondary stinks.

As of right now, the Panthers are in much better shape. After breaking it down, I did not fully realize how bad of shape the Colts are in.
 
Brees and Stafford both threw for 5,000 yards and Rodgers had one of the greatest QB seasons of all time. And Newton will go to the Pro Bowl as he is 1st alternate.
 
Very good post TAUO. Yes, the colts are in worst shape, bc it was exposed this year, and the panthers have 1 yr under their belt with Newton...adding to the Newton stand point...Having the 1st pick overal, you would hope the colts are worse off, and they are..Manning did need a good D, so does/did newton....

Didnt know Newton was an alternate? does tha count towards his pro bowl stats? If so, adding to the point
 
DeacsOrDie said:
alot of those mvps were SUBJECTIVELY choosen....look at newtons stats this year and explain why he didnt go to the pro bowl? yes, there were some better veterens in front of him, but who accumulated more touchdowns as a QB and who didnt get to the pro bowl
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Come on dude. 2 of the 3 NFC qbs were shoe in's as they will be finishing 1-2 in the MVP vote.

Then when you compare Eli's and Staffords numbers to Newtons they aren't worse than Newtons. Newton had a lot of success running the ball but these two guys had better years throwing it. Add to the fact that these 2 guys are playing in the playoffs, and you could see why Cam didn't make the pro bowl.
 
Its ridiculous to compare either to Peyton at this point. That said it is equally as ridiculous to say Cam had just a great rookie season. He had the best rookie season EVER. Its not fair to just compare to compare to any other rookie, hes a whole other animal.
 
Yeah Cam had a great season, but there were some :eek: qb performances in the nfc this year.


Luck will be good, really good imo.....Cam has already proven he is really good.

I think Peyton still has a couple of good years in him....I can't imagine what the Colts could get in return fir the #1 this year. I would prob trade it and draft a qb later to sit and develop behind Peyton.
 
The only thing I question with the Panthers is where they spent some of their money this past off season. Charles Johnson is a good DE, but they paid him as if he was a top 5 DE in the NFL. Just spent way too much money on him. Then the money they gave to DeAngelo Williams was a pure waste of money. In today's NFL you need multiple RB's but you don't need two stud RB's. They have way too much money invested in RB's.

As an organization, they need to start spending wisely.
 
Yes, those you listed did have better years throwing the football...But running the ball as a quarterBACK (A BACK is someone who signifies a position who throws, runs, and catches the football to gain yards) does count as a statistic for a quarterback...other than last week when the panthers were held to 17 pts, putting points on the board is not an issue for him/them. yet their defense is awful and there is nothing newton can do (unless he lined up at LB).

You have to admit that this year is probably the best year of the QB....rodgers, manning (although he didnt play) brady, brees, newton...and for newton to put up the numbers he did against these fellow QBs in HIS ROOKIE YEAR, then there is no telling (barring a dwight gooden flop) he could be just as good as the competition, if not better
 
DiegoTiger said:
Yeah Cam had a great season, but there were some :eek: qb performances in the nfc this year.


Luck will be good, really good imo.....Cam has already proven he is really good.

I think Peyton still has a couple of good years in him....I can't imagine what the Colts could get in return fir the #1 this year. I would prob trade it and draft a qb later to sit and develop behind Peyton.
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I'd be surprised if those years are with Indy. Dude's due a $28 million dollar bonus in March. I think he's gone. Be interested in knowing if the Polian massacre had anything to due with Manning's future with the Colts.
 
DeacsOrDie said:
Yes, those you listed did have better years throwing the football...But running the ball as a quarterBACK (A BACK is someone who signifies a position who throws, runs, and catches the football to gain yards) does count as a statistic for a quarterback...other than last week when the panthers were held to 17 pts, putting points on the board is not an issue for him/them. yet their defense is awful and there is nothing newton can do (unless he lined up at LB).

You have to admit that this year is probably the best year of the QB....rodgers, manning (although he didnt play) brady, brees, newton...and for newton to put up the numbers he did against these fellow QBs in HIS ROOKIE YEAR, then there is no telling (barring a dwight gooden flop) he could be just as good as the competition, if not better
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I think Manning, Newton and Stafford were all about equal and any of them could have been chosen as the 3rd NFC Pro Bowler, but Stafford gets it from me - combined passing and rushing, Stafford had more yards and more TDs than Manning and Newton (granted almost all of Stafford's came from passing) and I believe he had a higher completion %, higher QB rating, and fewer INTs than both and his team is in the playoffs.
 
DeacsOrDie said:
alot of those mvps were SUBJECTIVELY choosen....look at newtons stats this year and explain why he didnt go to the pro bowl? yes, there were some better veterens in front of him, but who accumulated more touchdowns as a QB and who didnt get to the pro bowl
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Good god. Please, Panthers fans, please start arguing that Newton is as good as Peyton Manning.
 
TexasDeac10 said:
Good god. Please, Panthers fans, please start arguing that Newton is as good as Peyton Manning.
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What an overreaction. It's more like Newton could be as good as Peyton one day. And Panthers fans aren't the only ones saying Cam could be an all-time great QB.
 
I wish the Panthers had made the playoffs just so Cam could have completely outplayed Andy Dalton.
 
seventwofour said:
Let's be serious here about Manning. He's in the conversation for best football player of all time.

Newton vs. Luck is a worthwhile discussion.
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Went I went home for Christmas, I was talking to my dad about this debate. For some stupid reason, he is probably the last Panther fan in Charlotte who is not totally on board with Cam Newton. I think he was just so enamored with Andrew Luck that he hasn't gotten over not getting him, even though the guy we got is arguably better. So I said we could make a wager that we wouldn't be able to complete until say 15-20 years from now, but I said Cam Newton would have a better career than Andrew Luck.

The next for us is to figure out how to measure it. I told him to develop some metrics and then I'll respond to what he has. Maybe I'll bring it to you guys to see what you think when we've figured it out.
 
PhDeac said:
What an overreaction. It's more like Newton could be as good as Peyton one day. And Panthers fans aren't the only ones saying Cam could be an all-time great QB.
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What a homer reaction.

Cam could be that good one day, but the poster I quoted was trying to act like Peyton's achievements weren't all they were cracked up to be, because they were based on subjective (writers') assessments. He then tried to say that, on objective criteria, Cam was as good as Peyton ever was.

Reading is fundamental, Professor.
 
TUA01576 said:
The only thing I question with the Panthers is where they spent some of their money this past off season. Charles Johnson is a good DE, but they paid him as if he was a top 5 DE in the NFL. Just spent way too much money on him. Then the money they gave to DeAngelo Williams was a pure waste of money. In today's NFL you need multiple RB's but you don't need two stud RB's. They have way too much money invested in RB's.

As an organization, they need to start spending wisely.
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I don't know anybody, besides you, that wouldn't take the backfield of JStew and DeAngelo if you have the opportunity to resign both. Both of them averaged over 5 yards a rush.

Mark me down for 2 studs
 
DeacsOrDie said:
alot of those mvps were SUBJECTIVELY choosen....look at newtons stats this year and explain why he didnt go to the pro bowl? yes, there were some better veterens in front of him, but who accumulated more touchdowns as a QB and who didnt get to the pro bowl
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Most likely, Cam will become a pro bowler this year because he's first in-line to replace one if they go to the SB
 
TexasDeac...Glad you are a deac and we need deacon fans more now than ever....

However, your reading was not fundamental...for I was trying to say that the list of barry sanders and john elway, the list that was previously listed was subjectively choosen (meaning that the list of those player in the previous posts should have won more MVPs/pro bowls than they actually accumulated because the others that won MVPs were subjectively choosen)
Again, the whole idea of the post was to see who had a higher ceiling, newton or luck? and would that ceiling be higher than peytons? (being that one of the two between newton and luck will be playing on peytons team, or previous team)

before you overract towards panthers fans, figure out what my post, and the whole thread is about...simply a futuristic thread of who will be a better QB
 
YoungBuck95 said:
I don't know anybody, besides you, that wouldn't take the backfield of JStew and DeAngelo if you have the opportunity to resign both. Both of them averaged over 5 yards a rush.

Mark me down for 2 studs
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You should NEVER spend the money that the Panthers have tied up in 2 RB's. Of the NFL playoff teams, only Cedric Benson, Rashard Mendenhall (Whom is on the IR), and Willis McGahee were 1st round picks. You can get by with mid round, values at RB if you want to win. Just look at the past couple SB champs, (GB with Starks, NO with Pierre Thomas, Pitt was using Mendenhall and Parker, Giants had Jacobs, Colts were using Addai and the scrub that ended up signing with Oakland the following year, the Pats never have a highly paid RB)

If you look across the NFL, RB's have the shortest shelf life of any position. To use two first rounders on them, and then to extend one of them to a pretty hefty contract is lunacy.
 
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