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Manning's lineups and subs

Yeah that's my thing too. I'm really unhappy with the sub patterns so far, but it's not like I think DM is oblivious to these things any more than we are. So I have to assume he has some reasoning behind it. Maybe that makes me an idiot, but I can't believe that he wouldn't pick up on what is obvious to everyone else watching.
 
RacerDeac said:
DCDeac wins the gold medal for mental gymnastics, no doubt.
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Not really. I mean, just listen to his presser. When asked a question he doesn't like, Manning calmly dodges it. When asked about Hudson and Rondale, he only remarks on Hudson. Manning spent 10 years at Kansas and he comes off as a hard-ass who believes the system and the prep is more important than the player. So if you do something stupid he'll plug in VanHorn because fuck you. If the scouting report says don't let player X shoot open 3's and our players keep losing him we're not zoning up because fuck that.

Feel free to think the guy is an idiot who has no idea what he's doing. If you acknowledge that he's has dedicated his entire life to the game of basketball including coaching from the ground floor up, it's pretty hard to buy into the "he has no idea what he's doing, I'm a dentist and even I could coach our substitutions better" reactions after game #3.
 
Lots of coaches that have had illustrius playing careers and more experience coaching than DM are completly lost on building lineups.
 
I don't think many people are out on Manning after game 3 of his 2nd season, but c'mon the he dedicated his life to basketball excuse already? I mean so did [name redacted]. That means we can't complain about throwing away a game for some hard ass ideology?... and that's the best case scenario.
 
Just think that having Dino in hurt the team. Dino is a genuine threat from beyond the arc, but has no basketball IQ and does not see his role as a three point shooter. He needs to be educated as to what his role on the team is and that if he keeps doing things like jacking up fade away falling down shots and driving the lane and losing the basketball, he will sit.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
I don't think many people are out on Manning after game 3 of his 2nd season, but c'mon the he dedicated his life to basketball excuse already? I mean so did [Redacted]. That means we can't complain about throwing away a game for some hard ass ideology... and that's the best case scenario.
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I never said he threw away the game. For all the "they kicked our ass" talk if Dinos doesn't jack that terrible shot after our comeback maybe we still win. And that's with the turnovers and the horrid defense - neither of which you can pin on VanHorn's minutes. He didn't score but we scored plenty to beat Richmond. 27 points on turnovers. And we shot under 60% from the line.

Fanbases are a wild roller-coaster game to game. After 1 game Crawford sucks and we're going to start 2-8. After 2 games Collins and Crawford are leaving early for the NBA and we're a tourney bubble team. After 3 games Manning is so clueless he doesn't understand basic basketball concepts and he's a horrible hire.

Who knows, maybe the truth is in the middle somewhere. It'll be really interesting to see where the minutes shift once Hudson and Codi are back.
 
I really don't want to agree with DC here, but the alternative is also concerning.
 
DCDeac said:
Not really. I mean, just listen to his presser. When asked a question he doesn't like, Manning calmly dodges it. When asked about Hudson and Rondale, he only remarks on Hudson. Manning spent 10 years at Kansas and he comes off as a hard-ass who believes the system and the prep is more important than the player. So if you do something stupid he'll plug in VanHorn because fuck you. If the scouting report says don't let player X shoot open 3's and our players keep losing him we're not zoning up because fuck that.

Feel free to think the guy is an idiot who has no idea what he's doing. If you acknowledge that he's has dedicated his entire life to the game of basketball including coaching from the ground floor up, it's pretty hard to buy into the "he has no idea what he's doing, I'm a dentist and even I could coach our substitutions better" reactions after game #3.
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Lol, are we talking about [Redacted] or Manning here?
 
Deacsfan27 said:
What's the alternative?

That he's so stupid that he doesn't recognize what's going on?
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Only thing I can think of is that Manning values focus and effort over talent at this point in the season. Van Horn is out there because he plays hard and doesn't make mental errors. He just isn't very good.

With around six or seven minutes left (I think) Manning put in a lineup of Crawford, Wilbekin, McClinton, Collins, and Devin. Collins immediately scored but then picked up a dumb foul in reaction to not getting a rebound he should have gotten. That lineup should have finished out the game but Manning immediately put in Dinos or Van horn.
 
I think DM just likes Van Horn and thinks he can count on him to not make dumb mistakes. So he plays him in an attempt to win.

I also think that when someone has been out there for a while and needs rest DM replaces him with someone who plays the same position-ish from the bench. I do not think he thinks deeply about what type of creation, high-gravity spacers, rebounding, etc. really exist for each 5 man unit that steps on the court. Last year this led to lineups that lacked the balance necessary to have a chance to be successful. Just my opinion.
 
RChildress107 said:
Only thing I can think of is that Manning values focus and effort over talent at this point in the season. Van Horn is out there because he plays hard and doesn't make mental errors. He just isn't very good.

With around six or seven minutes left (I think) Manning put in a lineup of Crawford, Wilbekin, McClinton, Collins, and Devin. Collins immediately scored but then picked up a dumb foul in reaction to not getting a rebound he should have gotten. That lineup should have finished out the game but Manning immediately put in Dinos or Van horn.
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He has the 4th highest turnover percentage on the team.
 
FckVwls said:
I think DM just likes Van Horn and thinks he can count on him to not make dumb mistakes. So he plays him in an attempt to win.

I also think that when someone has been out there for a while and needs rest DM replaces him with someone who plays the same position-ish from the bench. I do not think he thinks deeply about what type of creation, high-gravity spacers, rebounding, etc. really exist for each 5 man unit that steps on the court. Last year this led to lineups that lacked the balance necessary to have a chance to be successful. Just my opinion.
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Basically meaning he doesn't go small, or big when the time calls for it, but rather just subs PG's for PG's, SG's for SG's?

This I agree with. He's not very abstract in his lineup thought. Very much "if you play the 2 you play the 2 and sub a 2."
 
I'm not sure that Manning intentionally playing what he knows to be shitty lineups late in a close game to send some kind of veiled message is any better than Manning thinking the lineups he put out there gave us the best chance to win
 
Lol, are we talking about [name redacted] or Manning here?
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No. Manning actually understands that recruiting matters.
 
I don't even know if mental errors is the right word. Crawford made a ton of mistakes at the end of the game mostly because he was trying to make things happen. He has the skill to sometimes make those things happen and is tempted to try them even if they are low percentage plays.

Van horn doesn't try to make things happen because he's fully aware of his skill set and understands there is no need to go outside of it.
 
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