Maryland athletics continues to struggle financially, despite planned move to Big Ten

[WardNCSU]

Re-read my edit above.

She never announced anything during the search. You are referring to rumors about her going after Shaka (which were true, she did offer the job and discussed it briefly in the post Gottfried hiring presser) and Gregg Marshall (nothing confirmed, just widely held belief), and Rick Barnes and Sean Miller (again, she never mentioned them).

Her comments about Williams were made after she hired Gottfried, not before.

Again, she made no communication during the hiring of Gottfried precisely because of what Fowlup did in the prior search. She cant stop the rumor mill.

 

[jaybone]

That's not how it went down. It wasn't rumors she had no control over.

There are some A.D.s who try and use the media to float information. Illinois did this with Shaka a few years ago since it would be in poor form to contact him without getting approval from the VCU A.D. - who wouldn't have granted Illinois contact because VCU was still playing in the NCAA tournament. So they floated that information in the media. In that case, it backfired magnificently because Shaka had to announce while his team was still playing he had and will never have interest in the Illinois job.

Yow played a similar hand. It's sort of like rather than walking across a bar and asking a girl to dance, you have the D.J. announce your desire to dance with her. If the girl doesn't smile, then you don't ask her to dance. That's in essence what Yow did with Smart. I believe she arrogantly felt that Gregg Marshall was her fall back option so she floated that name too. I did a quick search and kind find any links but I am a horrific searcher. Anyway, that was the storyline then. Obviously, it is possible it could have been false but pundits were pretty critical of Yow's 3-week hiring process and the Gary Williams thing was the icing on the cake. She cracked. It was unprofessional.

 

[TBR]

I think your thinking of the Lowe hiring process that Fowl up did. Gottfried process was pretty smooth.

No I am not. The process took way to long to unfold, especially given they knew it was going to happen well before the season ended. And it absolutely does fall on her that the org was so leaky, and the result is that everyone knows Gottfried was not the first person offered the job. If Gottfried was ever on Yow's short list he was at the very end.

I mean she had to send out an e-mail a couple of weeks after Lowe was fired to reassure the fan base. That isn't the mark of a successful coaching search.

 

[JDawg]

You can argue that it is however one of the things that Maryland fans like to knock on Debbie for is building too much (expanding Byrd, building the Comcast center) They are now going to spend $50-80 mill on a indoor practice facility that they don't have and are already in debt (could be more in debt if they pay the ACC $52 mill). Is that really the smartest move?

By the way, State announced they are building their indoor practice facility for $15 mill. Why is UMD's going to cost $50-80 mill?

Well the monies being withheld ($15mm this year contributing a significant amount to this year's debt, not a surprise) would go towards whatever buyout gets withheld. Its not like you guys are gonna withhold two years of ACC payments and get $52 million on top of that. And those private funds that would be used to build the facility are project specific and no debt would be involved.

Again, its more than a indoor facility - its a team house that would house a lot of resources for all sorts of sports, the current is very old and outdated. Costs more to build up here, but I don't know why so much more - the estimate does seem high. I expect a palace for that amount.

 

[WardNCSU]

Well the monies being withheld ($15mm this year contributing a significant amount to this year's debt, not a surprise) would go towards whatever buyout gets withheld. Its not like you guys are gonna withhold two years of ACC payments and get $52 million on top of that. And those private funds that would be used to build the facility are project specific and no debt would be involved.

Again, its more than a indoor facility - its a team house that would house a lot of resources for all sorts of sports, the current is very old and outdated. Costs more to build up here, but I don't know why so much more - the estimate does seem high. I expect a palace for that amount.

The money being withheld is to cover the $52 mill. ($15 mill last year, $15 mill this year plus another $22 mill that UMD will owe the ACC if we win). Maryland will at least have to pay $20 mill (the previous penalty which UMD did agree to) which means that the $15 mil from last year and $5 from this year will never go back to UMD.

Your argument sounds like the same one UMD fans were using when they built the Comcast and Byrd upgrades. We need those things to be competitive but we dont actually want to pay for them

 

[JDawg]

The money being withheld is to cover the $52 mill. ($15 mill last year, $15 mill this year plus another $22 mill that UMD will owe the ACC if we win). Maryland will at least have to pay $20 mill (the previous penalty which UMD did agree to) which means that the $15 mil from last year and $5 from this year will never go back to UMD.

Your argument sounds like the same one UMD fans were using when they built the Comcast and Byrd upgrades. We need those things to be competitive but we dont actually want to pay for them

I'm pretty sure I acknowledged your first point 100% in my prior response. And I have no idea what the second one means. Do you not understand private funds? The big donors say "here's $1mm to be used for this cause and this cause only" or whatever. That's not debt.

 

[WardNCSU]

I'm pretty sure I acknowledged your first point 100% in my prior response. And I have no idea what the second one means. Do you not understand private funds? The big donors say "here's $1mm to be used for this cause and this cause only" or whatever. That's not debt.

Do you really believe that Maryland donors are going to pony up $50-80 mill for those facilities when they aren't paying for the suites now?

Also included in the original article.

" But fundraising has been among Maryland athletics’ weakest links."

I could see Kevin Plank paying for it but thats about it.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Do you really believe that Maryland donors are going to pony up $50-80 mill for those facilities when they aren't paying for the suites now? I could see Kevin Plank paying for it.

Also included in the original article.

" But fundraising has been among Maryland athletics’ weakest links."

I could see Kevin Plank paying for it but thats about it.

I would imagine there are plenty of unfulfilled pledges associated with the Comcast and Byrd stadium debt.

 

[JDawg]

Do you really believe that Maryland donors are going to pony up $50-80 mill for those facilities when they aren't paying for the suites now?

Also included in the original article.

" But fundraising has been among Maryland athletics’ weakest links."

I could see Kevin Plank paying for it but thats about it.

Suites are two completely different stories. (They don't have private bathrooms! They're completely a luxury, they aren't needed for recruiting, etc.) There's a lot of other donors besides Kevin Plank that have donated sizeable gifts in the past. Whether that huge figure is met or not....I doubt it. But apparently this has been in the works for a while so we'll see.

 

[JDawg]

I would imagine there are plenty of unfulfilled pledges associated with the Comcast and Byrd stadium debt.

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain those both were funded with almost 100% public debt.

 

[WardNCSU]

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain those both were funded with almost 100% public debt.

"Revenue from a $20 million naming rights deal with Chevy Chase Bank signed last August will cover part of the cost of the Tyser Tower expansion. The remainder will be funded through a $35 million loan to the athletic department by the University System of Maryland and through private donations.
"

Your wrong.

 

[WardNCSU]

Suites are two completely different stories. (They don't have private bathrooms! They're completely a luxury, they aren't needed for recruiting, etc.) There's a lot of other donors besides Kevin Plank that have donated sizeable gifts in the past. Whether that huge figure is met or not....I doubt it. But apparently this has been in the works for a while so we'll see.

So a $50-80 million dollar practice facility and football center isn't a luxury??? Maryland doesnt have any other practice facilities that they are using right now?

I would argue that suites/club seats/stadium appearance is very very much a recruiting tool. In addition to the revenue that they bring in (well for most schools) to pay for things like practice fields, olympic sports, and higher coaching salaries, recruits generally like to play in impressive looking stadiums.

Suites generally cost about $60k per season. Why is it again that Maryland can't get enough donors to buy suites (or season tickets for that matter) to their current FB games but together they are going to give $50-80 million to build a facility that they rarely ever step foot in?

 

[JDawg]

"Revenue from a $20 million naming rights deal with Chevy Chase Bank signed last August will cover part of the cost of the Tyser Tower expansion. The remainder will be funded through a $35 million loan to the athletic department by the University System of Maryland and through private donations.
"

Your wrong.

And in a creative accounting measure made by someone, the revenue from that naming deal was all recognized in a year or two on the books.

So a $50-80 million dollar practice facility and football center isn't a luxury??? Maryland doesnt have any other practice facilities that they are using right now?

I would argue that suites/club seats/stadium appearance is very very much a recruiting tool. In addition to the revenue that they bring in (well for most schools) to pay for things like practice fields, olympic sports, and higher coaching salaries, recruits generally like to play in impressive looking stadiums.

Suites generally cost about $60k per season. Why is it again that Maryland can't get enough donors to buy suites (or season tickets for that matter) to their current FB games but together they are going to give $50-80 million to build a facility that they rarely ever step foot in?

We already went over this. In the state of college football today, no an indoor practice facility is not a luxury. CFB is an arms race. Yow has this one right:

Yow is hopeful the $14million facility will be ready for spring practice in 2015. Virginia and Florida State opened new indoor practice facilities this year. Closer to home, N.C. State is the only ACC team in the Triangle without a place to move inside when it rains or gets excessively hot.“We do need one,” Yow said. “Duke has an indoor facility and (North) Carolina has one.”

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/13/3105459/nc-state-football-planning-indoor.html#storylink=cpy

Our suites are even less than that, $40k-$50k I think. Donors don't buy suites, corporations do. And a corporation does not want to impress people when shitty food is getting catered, BYOB with restrictions (after years of fighting to get that), and no bathrooms in the suites. They're really quite bush league. So they aren't bringing in significant revenues.

 

[WardNCSU]

And in a creative accounting measure made by someone, the revenue from that naming deal was all recognized in a year or two on the books.



We already went over this. In the state of college football today, no an indoor practice facility is not a luxury. CFB is an arms race. Yow has this one right:

Yow is hopeful the $14million facility will be ready for spring practice in 2015. Virginia and Florida State opened new indoor practice facilities this year. Closer to home, N.C. State is the only ACC team in the Triangle without a place to move inside when it rains or gets excessively hot.“We do need one,” Yow said. “Duke has an indoor facility and (North) Carolina has one.”

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/13/3105459/nc-state-football-planning-indoor.html#storylink=cpy

Our suites are even less than that, $40k-$50k I think. Donors don't buy suites, corporations do. And a corporation does not want to impress people when shitty food is getting catered, BYOB with restrictions (after years of fighting to get that), and no bathrooms in the suites. They're really quite bush league. So they aren't bringing in significant revenues.

Your right it is an arms race and every other major college stadium has suites as well. So if you don't have them, your behind.

A indoor stadium isnt going to help State practice better or on more days. Its a pretty toy to show the recruits.

You continue to come up with excuses as to why Maryland sucks. I'm sure you can find a million more reasons as well (really, people arent buying suites because the food sucks and there isn't a private bathroom??)
The real reason is that Maryland fans just don't support their teams. End of story.

 

[Buttermaker]

I would imagine there are plenty of unfulfilled pledges associated with the Comcast and Byrd stadium debt.

$125mm to build Comcast ($160mm in today's $) with $25mm coming from the naming rights, per wiki.

 

[Deacfreak07]

$125mm to build Comcast ($160mm in today's $) with $25mm coming from the naming rights, per wiki.

So then they were obviously counting on suite and club seating leasing to cover the debt service payments. That is pretty standard. That is why the empty suites really hurt bad.

 

[WardNCSU]

So then they were obviously counting on suite and club seating leasing to cover the debt service payments. That is pretty standard. That is why the empty suites really hurt bad.

Thats how most stadium improvements done in the last 10-15 years are paid for.

X amount for private donations/naming rights
X amount for seat licenses/lifetime rights
X amount assumed yearly purchases in seats/suites/club seats to gain financing/loan

Almost every other school got their fans to show up and pay though

 

[JDawg]

Your right it is an arms race and every other major college stadium has suites as well. So if you don't have them, your behind.

A indoor stadium isnt going to help State practice better or on more days. Its a pretty toy to show the recruits.

You continue to come up with excuses as to why Maryland sucks. I'm sure you can find a million more reasons as well (really, people arent buying suites because the food sucks and there isn't a private bathroom??)
The real reason is that Maryland fans just don't support their teams. End of story.

Oh man, I thought I was making progress with you.

The suites are terrible. That's on Yow. But you seem to be blinded by her current position. It's only one problem on a list of many, one of which is the fan base which can be traced all the way back to the 70s and 80s even.

The bottom line is that the move to the Big Ten isn't about the past. It's not about the short-term success of athletics. It's about the long term growth of the entire university, both athletics and academics.

 

[norm]

Because the UMD fans seem hell bent on blaming all of their problems on Yow. She is our AD now and so far has done a commendable job (I believe it will take 5-7 years before we really see how well she has done.). People tend to protect their own when they like what that person is doing. UMD fans want the world to know that she is the root of all their problems when they themselves shoulder most of the blame.

Since you brought it up, what mistakes do you think she made.

And the problem with the statement in bold is what? Md fans giving too much blame Yow isn't any better that State fans pretending Yow's time in College Park was great and any problems were solely due to others. UMd has trouble getting growth in their fan base. Whether it is the school culture, urban environment, or whatever else it may be. That doesn't change the fact that while Debbie was the AD she oversaw a terrible football stadium expansion, suspect accounting, an over extension of non-revenue sports, and had a deteriorating relationship with a few coaching staffs (especially basketball and football).

Of course some others contributed, but there is no need act as if her time was unblemished. She seems to be learning, though her pride still gets the best of her occasionally. And NCSU has some strengths the Terps did not. Early returns in Raleigh are positive.

 

[RHTB&G]

Because the UMD fans seem hell bent on blaming all of their problems on Yow. She is our AD now and so far has done a commendable job (I believe it will take 5-7 years before we really see how well she has done.). People tend to protect their own when they like what that person is doing. UMD fans want the world to know that she is the root of all their problems when they themselves shoulder most of the blame.

Since you brought it up, what mistakes do you think she made.

Coaches admired Yow's ambition, but not her management skills, and her shortcomings were highlighted as the top two revenue-producing sports began to struggle.

"Debbie was a polarizing figure and it had a ton of an impact on the department," said former Maryland water polo coach Carl Salyer. "I think the atmosphere within the department was that people were always on edge. The one time I was in her office was after I got hired to meet her. If you were in her office, you were in a world of hurt and everybody knew that."

At major Maryland athletic events, Yow was often seen walking briskly with her head down instead of greeting fans and schmoozing alums. She engaged in public battles with football coach Ralph Friedgen and, more notably, with men's basketball coach Gary Williams. Williams was already a nationally respected coach when Yow arrived in 1994, and it remains unclear if they ever got along in their 16 years working together. Infamously surly himself, Williams publicly implicated Yow and associate AD Kathy Worthington in a 2009 dispute over two recruits who signed elsewhere after Williams courted them.

"There were a lot of donors that turned away because they didn't like her," said Brian Burlace, a former Maryland All-America lacrosse player and prominent donor. "They didn't like the way she treated Gary Williams. I think without question she really severed a lot of relationships with donors."

...

In 2011, The Washington Post reported that Maryland had already used most of the $25 million from the naming rights agreement with Comcast Cable Communications Inc. The Post noted those funds will run out in 2016.

...

Yow's goal was to improve and expand her athletic department, but her critics say she greatly overreached.

"It seems to be common knowledge within the department that Debbie spent all of the money," said Salyer, the women's water polo coach who saw his program cut along with seven others in July. "The thought is that she knew that she was going to be out of there and she spent the money."

Yow declined to comment on Salyer's claim, but said in an email: "During the 16 years I served as Maryland's Director of Athletics, we paid down an inherited debt of $51 million to $5.5 million, paid expenses during the 16-year period using athletically-generated income secured through aggressive/creative sponsorships, enhanced fundraising initiatives and improved ticket sales, won 20 national championships, and completed several facility projects."

But when Yow left in June 2010 to become athletic director at NC State, she also left the Maryland athletic department with three significant problems: a losing football team, an underachieving basketball team and a mountain of debt.

When Kevin Anderson became Maryland's athletic director in September 2010, donors were impressed with his rich baritone voice and palpable aura of confidence. The former athletic director at Army appeared to be the leader who would energize the donor base and guide Maryland to prominence. Under his watch, Anderson claimed that Maryland athletics were going to go "from good to great."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/the_bonus/11/26/maryland-athletics/index.html#ixzz2DSDegnJ7

Additionally, didn't Debbie Yow just admit in an interview with PackPride that NCSU's AD is $51.7 million in debt?