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MBB Game 30: BC Eagles @ LJVM - 7 pm Tuesday - ESPNU

Cam is tired. The team is as well, but he seems to look around when games are going poorly and try and drag the team with him. As stated above that sometimes means he forces shots he would not normally take and has difficulty finishing with tired legs.

I feel better about marsh's defense than others. He needs to be much better about using his body to not be backed down but he alters a lot of shots without fouling.

In fact, that seems to be what the staff is telling them to do down low. Don't go for the block, force them to make tough shots (we have some length on the team), and don't foul. The major problem is more a lack of quickness right now with the big and size of our limited guard corps. Often disrupt the first attempt but don't rebound well and give up additional attempts or allow additional passes for the open looks. Absolutely needs to be corrected.
 
BirdinBama said:
Gang, I want to fuckin gag on Forbes' post game comments!!!! Who's fuckin job is it to make sure the team "competes"???? This guy hasn't got it for this level, and the sooner we get rid of him the better. We won't do it, because we're too chicken shit to do what must be done NOW!
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LOL. Yeah, let's get rid of the guy who got us 25 wins last year (almost a school record, FWIW) with a team of castoffs and may get us 20 again this year with the same deal. I don't think some of you realize that the transfer era is going to fuck with how programs (emphasis on PROGRAMS, rather than TEAMS) are developed or just how utterly in the toilet this program was when Forbes took it over. Forbes can coach. He has already demonstrated that over and over everywhere he has been. Whether he can build a program in the new era of transfers is another matter altogether. I have zero doubt that he could do that in the pre-transfer era. Just because he is getting a lot of production out of his transfers doesn't mean that is good for the long term health of the program, though I think in fairness that some of that (namely Jake) is unpredictable. It makes it easier for us to recruit stopgaps and effective transfers, but ultimately I'm not sure that's good for the program long-term. However, it is good for fan engagement and putting an acceptable and entertaining product on the floor, and that is also ultimately good for a program too.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
He'd be great in D2 with what he does, he just can't by that type of player against most teams we play. I was very disappointed in Carr a couple of times last year, he had the ball in the low post, guarded by a guy 4 to 5 inches shorter and never even looked like he thought about trying to score.
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Get outta here with d2 bs.
 
deaconson said:
Cam is tired. The team is as well, but he seems to look around when games are going poorly and try and drag the team with him. As stated above that sometimes means he forces shots he would not normally take and has difficulty finishing with tired legs.

I feel better about marsh's defense than others. He needs to be much better about using his body to not be backed down but he alters a lot of shots without fouling.

In fact, that seems to be what the staff is telling them to do down low. Don't go for the block, force them to make tough shots (we have some length on the team), and don't foul. The major problem is more a lack of quickness right now with the big and size of our limited guard corps. Often disrupt the first attempt but don't rebound well and give up additional attempts or allow additional passes for the open looks. Absolutely needs to be corrected.
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Agree, but we don't rebound well because our big men are slow on their feet and slow to react. I have said repeatedly that it seems like Hildreth is the only guy with any rebounding instincts on the team, something that can't be taught.
 
Additionally, I don't think Forbes has punted on the season but after losing Monsanto he's

playing carr despite the nagging?? injury
brandford benched
more minutes for bobi
minutes for keller again
Playing taylor

He's trying to develop players for the future.
 
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Sucks to see the season grind to a halt like this.

With Williamson, predictably, giving everything he had last night - really wish we could win.

Surprised an Earl Grant team was "blowing kisses" at our team or fans, but a lot of people seem completely disrespectful, clueless and immature in 2023.

Without team tri-captain Ituka all year, and now Monsanto --- we don't have the firepower at all. Team will play hard, but it's likely going to be a rough end to the year.

Syracuse is a bunch of asshats, but we are running on fumes, so I don't know if I can bear to watch that.

Last, Klintman has tremendous upside, more than anyone on the team, and ideally so does M-Cubed next year. We may have 2 absolute studs at forward, for the first time in a WHILE. The future is bright.
 
thatguy2016 said:
Torvik says WF had a 94.6% win probability up 40-31 with 16:52 to play

Then BC went on a 27-3 run over 7:22 to go up 58-43; at that point they had a win probabilty of 89.4%

I don't recall ever seeing a run like that deep in a game. They scored 27 points in 13 possessions, including 5 layups (2 of them 3-point plays) and 3 made 3's

WF shot 3-8 on FT's, 0-6 from the field, 3 turnovers during that span
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Wow, that is putrid.
 
Cam is not the problem. He’s a very good all around player. The real problem is we don’t have many better options. Applebee is the only guy who can beat his man and make a play. The others rely on ball movement and getting an open look. At least Cam drives to the basket.
 
my major regret about the season (because, you know that matters) is that forbes shortened the bench too much. i get there was a need because most of the young guys are limited but i would have liked them to have a bit more experience at this point.
 
deaconson said:
my major regret about the season (because, you know that matters) is that forbes shortened the bench too much. i get there was a need because most of the young guys are limited but i would have liked them to have a bit more experience at this point.
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Yep.
 
UVA lost to BC by 15 in the Eagles' last game before WF. Last Wednesday, WF lost IMO the most dynamic scorer in the ACC when Monsanto went down, and WF has no depth to make up for his loss of production; Lucas Tayor is getting a lot of Monsanto's minutes, and he scored a total of 20 points in 9 games this year. Last night's result was hardly a surprise.

With the loss of 4 starters off last year's team plus the injury to Williamson and the injury to Ituka (and now the loss of Monsanto), anyone unable to see that this team was a massive longshot to make the NCAAT is the one with the problem, not Steve Forbes. Other ACC teams pay seven figures to their coaching staffs too and some pay their players to attend school; so, the idea that the difference between winning and losing is Steve Forbes "coaching them up" and "getting them ready to play" just doesn't get it.

Good coaches, who "know how to get their team ready to play" often lose to underdogs. That is the nature of college basketball. As stated above Tony Bennett's UVA team got "blowed out" by BC a week ago, BC also swept VT's Mike Young team, and Clemson's Brad Brownell may miss the NCAAT by losing to #284 L'ville. Is Tom Izzo a good coach? Notre Dame beat Michigan State by 18 this year. Nate Oats a good coach? 14-15 Oklahoma beat Bama by 24. Is Buzz Williams a good coach? They lost back to back games to #230 Murray State by 9 and 15-15 Colorado by 28.

Unless you just have stupid talent, and even then, the margins between the teams just aren't that great. Throw in a couple of injuries and three point variance (BC shot 54% from three last night), and you know what happens? An upset. They happen everyday.

Even when totally healthy, 2023 WF was not a top 60 team (and you generally need to be top 40 to get an NCAAT at large bid - last year's team was #32). With the current roster, not sure WF has top 100 talent. Would think that only people that have at least a rudimentary working knowledge of college basketball would spend the time to post here. After night's like last nights buzzer beater loss to an improving BC team, some people are agitating for shortening the leash on Forbes? Really?
 
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Pilchard said:
UVA lost to BC by 15 in the Eagles' last game before WF. Last Wednesday, WF lost IMO the most dynamic scorer in the ACC when Monsanto went down, and WF has no depth to make up for his loss of production; Lucas Tayor is getting a lot of Monsanto's minutes, and he scored a total of 20 points in 9 games this year. Last night's result was hardly a surprise.

With the loss of 4 starters off last year's team plus the injury to Williamson and the injury to Ituka (and now the loss of Monsanto), anyone unable to see that this team was a massive longshot to make the NCAAT is the one with the problem, not Steve Forbes. Other ACC teams pay seven figures to their coaching staffs too and some pay their players to attend school; so, the idea that the difference between winning and losing is Steve Forbes "coaching them up" and "getting them ready to play" just doesn't get it.

Good coaches, who "know how to get their team ready to play" often lose to underdogs. That is the nature of college basketball. As stated above Tony Bennett's UVA team got "blowed out" by BC a week ago, BC also swept VT's Mike Young team, and Clemson's Brad Brownell may miss the NCAAT by losing to #284 L'ville. Is Tom Izzo a good coach? Notre Dame beat Michigan State by 18 this year. Nate Oats a good coach? 14-15 Oklahoma beat Bama by 24. Is Buzz Williams a good coach? They lost back to back games to #230 Murray State by 9 and 15-15 Colorado by 28.

Unless you just have stupid talent, and even then, the margins between the teams just aren't that great. Throw in a couple of injuries and three point variance (BC shot 54% from three last night), and you know what happens? An upset. They happen everyday.

Even when totally healthy, 2023 WF was not a top 60 team (and you generally need to be top 40 to get an NCAAT at large bid - last year's team was #32). With the current roster, not sure WF has top 100 talent. Would think that only people that have at least a rudimentary working knowledge of college basketball would spend the time to post here. After night's like last nights buzzer beater loss to an improving BC team, some people are agitating for shortening the leash on Forbes? Really?
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EatLeadCommie said:
Shooting for the last 10 games.

1-6 v BC
1-9 v ND
5-8 v NCSU
5-9 v MIA
5-9 v GT
2-9 v UNC
4-8 v ND
3-8 v Duke
5-15 v NCSU

So, as I said, the last two games he was horrendous. Before that, he had 2 poor shooting games of the remaining 8. Yeah, that's 4 bad out of 10, his worst stretch of the season for sure, made worse by the last 2.

We know he isn't a good shooter, which is why he doesn't shoot much. Pretty sure he knows it too, which is why his high in attempts for 3 pointers this year is 5 in a game-- one game he went 2-5 and another 1-5. His second most is 4, which he has done once. So he isn't killing us with bad 3 point shooting. It's those missed 2 footers and layups that hurt, shots which would be easier if he had any help in the post at all. If he had hit half of those this year, he'd be well over 50% for the year (as it is, he's at 46%).

Hildreth would be a great weapon if we actually had somebody else on the team who could do what he does. He's our best post player and our best rebounder and plays harder than anybody except for maybe Ty. And he's 6'4". That just can't happen with a P5 program. And that isn't his fault. We have a team of guys with limitations. Carr is too weak and timid to be a power forward, and not quite diverse enough to be a stretch. I do think he will get there though. He's a good player and will only get better. Our center game consists of dunk lobs to Marsh. I love that, but he isn't effective defensively or as a rebounder. Don't even get me started on Bradford. We know what Monsanto is, but that's pretty much his game. Three ball from anywhere at anytime and not much beyond that. Klintman is very limited in his game right now. Does some things well for a spell, then looks like a freshman for long stretches. I'm not as high on him as some others, but there is no reason why he can't become a 15/8 type of player by the end of next year-- but he isn't close right now. And as I have stated a lot in recent days, we have zero depth on top of all those limitations. With all these limitations and lack of depth, we need everybody to be their cog in the wheel and have very little room for error. That is why we have seen this team get out to 20 point leads and then have them evaporate. When they're good they're very good and when they're not they're like a JV squad. I can't think of any Wake team quite like it.
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I stand corrected. Recency bias. This is a good analysis.
 
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