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MBB Game 9: Clemson Tigers at Littlejohn - Friday 7 pm

PhDeac said:
It’s because our post players are limited by what they can do in the paint. They’re clearing hunting for alley-oops and entry passes to cutting Marsh and Bradford. They don’t have many post moves. Keller and Carr are limited post players. Neither seems like a good post passer who can anchor a halfcourt offense. I would like to see Cam keep posting up. He had some rough touches but it’s something he can keep working on to get points in the paint when Appleby’s dribble drive isn’t working and the alley-oops aren’t there.
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The lack of offensive moves by our post players, other than the dunks, also takes away the driving lanes by our guards. It appeared that a major part of Brownell's defensive plan was to keep his 5 man under the basket at all times to prevent Wake's guards from penetrating. Clemson had no concerns about our bigs shooting if they were more than 2 feet away from the basket.
 
JOJESMA said:
The lack of offensive moves by our post players, other than the dunks, also takes away the driving lanes by our guards. It appeared that a major part of Brownell's defensive plan was to keep his 5 man under the basket at all times to prevent Wake's guards from penetrating. Clemson had no concerns about our bigs shooting if they were more than 2 feet away from the basket.
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I think this is a good take having re-watched part of this game. It REALLY makes you appreciate, even more, just what Tim Duncan brought to the floor. He changed the entire dynamic. It forced teams to worry about more than just guarding him. That's what the top 2% of athletes do.
 
scooter84 said:
We seem to shoot the 3 pretty well as a team when we take good shots - feet set, squared up, clean look at the basket. We just take too many 3s that are not that. But, I agree that we need to make more attempts to get the ball inside - either for scoring opportunities or to work the offense more inside-out.
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Agree, throughout the entire second half it appeared that Clemson shot all of their 3s-feet set, squared up, and with a clean look at the basket. Wake's 3s always seemed to be off-balanced, off the dribble, or after one-on-one moves.
 
It would open things up more if Carr and Keller could play together as pick and roll cutters and pick and pop shooters.
 
Brownell's Clemson tenure is an interesting comparison of where our program really is.

He has a .573 overall winning % (almost exactly the same as Forbes) but below .500 in the ACC (.484, better than Forbes .410). Brownell is 15-3 against WF, so nearly 15% of his total conference wins are against Wake.

He has 4 20-win seasons, 3 NCAA bids, and 1 S16 in 12 seasons, this is his 13th. He has only had a losing record once.

Nothing about this is particularly remarkable, and I don't think anyone would consider him a top ACC coach.

If this was Forbes' record after 12 seasons, would you be please or disappointed in that?
 
PaddyWF said:
Brownell's Clemson tenure is an interesting comparison of where our program really is.

He has a .573 overall winning % (almost exactly the same as Forbes) but below .500 in the ACC (.484, better than Forbes .410). Brownell is 15-3 against WF, so nearly 15% of his total conference wins are against Wake.

He has 4 20-win seasons, 3 NCAA bids, and 1 S16 in 12 seasons, this is his 13th. He has only had a losing record once.

Nothing about this is particularly remarkable, and I don't think anyone would consider him a top ACC coach.

If this was Forbes' record after 12 seasons, would you be please or disappointed in that?
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Has he been to the NIT like 8 times then? I’m not as concerned with overall winning % as I am with postseason appearances.
 
deacdixieboy said:
Has he been to the NIT like 8 times then? I’m not as concerned with overall winning % as I am with postseason appearances.
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3 times NIT. 1 NIT FF, 1 second-round exit, 1 first-round exit. So 50% of seasons (6/12), he is in the post season.

Personally, I don't think NIT is worth mentioning, so I didn't include it.
 
PaddyWF said:
3 times NIT. 1 NIT FF, 1 second-round exit, 1 first-round exit. So 50% of seasons (6/12), he is in the post season.

Personally, I don't think NIT is worth mentioning, so I didn't include it.
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That’s fair. I think I would be unhappy with that overall. 3/12 is pretty bad but at this exact moment it doesn’t sound so awful given the last 12 years.
 
deac03 said:
This is the most embarrassing performance in a while. This is bball version of Louisville game this year. Disgusting loss. Shameful coaching and pitiful response from players.
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I agree totally! Two things really. Did we forget all the great things we did up at Wiscy that brought us that great win? Did we forget even what we did in the first half as we took a 7 point lead? Geez we looked like we we not even coached in the second half.
 
BoDeac said:
After the win at WI, I felt better about the hoops team. Going to Clem and playing one half very well and then staying in the locker room for the second half really sucks because WF has done poorly there vs Brownell squads and I thought we may get a good road W vs an ACC foe. I think most WF will agree that the shitty end to the FB season had us hoping for the basketball team to help us get over it, but having the basketball team play poorly only makes it worse
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I think most "seasoned" Wake fans knew better than to do this.

But you're right. Wake is the Charlie Brown of fanbases.

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Forbes going off on the scheduling last week on the radio show and the fact we’ve opened on the road so many times consecutively.
 
Forbes said on his radio show tonight that he should have taken an early 2nd half TO at clem's son and that he's mad at himself for not doing so.

We're mad at him too. :(
 
morrison2951 said:
Forbes said on his radio show tonight that he should have taken an early 2nd half TO at clem's son and that he's mad at himself for not doing so.

We're mad at him too. :(
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Admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery. :)
 
Five ACC teams played on the road for the B1G Challenge and again to open ACC play. Three of them (Pitt, UNC, Cuse) had three rest days in between. Two of them had only two rest days in between: WF and BC. BC went to Nebraska and then Duke and got waxed in Cameron as expected. WF went to Wisconsin and Clemson and we all know what happened there.

If Daivien and Ituka were 100% then maybe we could have pulled it out at Clemson. But Daivien is not 100% and I hope Ituka is rusty - he obviously must play better to contribute for us. Expecting Appleby to carry us twice in a row, given the effort he made at Wisconsin, was too much to ask.
 
Rationalization. If we came out and were down 27 at half, I'd agree, but we didn't. We looked like we were ready, then the wheels fell off in the 2nd half.

BC could have the month off and get waxed in Cameron.
 
Just stating the facts regarding who played where

I said BC lost as expected

“We looked like we were ready, then the wheels fell off”. Right. Sounds like a tired team.

Team had about 6 air balls. I attribute those to tired legs. Also the coach could have called timeout and strongly suggested we attack inside
 
For what it’s worth, Forbes was using it less as an excuse for tiredness (I don’t think he mentioned fatigue - said he told the players “if you want to play in the NBA…”), and seemed more steamed about the demands it placed on the players in an academic sense. And also just that there was no reason for the Friday - sounded like they told him it was because of the football game, but we played at VTech on the same Saturday as the football championship last year. Could have easily gone on Saturday or Sunday and Brownell agreed. ACC was responsible for both scheduling both games and he brought it up with them when it came out.

Said he felt the turning point in the game was the rejection on the Cam steal/breakaway. Was full of praise for Cam but pretty critical of that play (gotta dunk it) and about him making better decisions once he gets in the lane.

Also spoke about needing to get better play from the big guys on the block (mentioned Marsh’s left handed up and under “whatever”), which someone mentioned in the thread, as well.

Was still pretty positive overall.
 
OldGouldandBlack said:
Said he felt the turning point in the game was the rejection on the Cam steal/breakaway. Was full of praise for Cam but pretty critical of that play (gotta dunk it) and about him making better decisions once he gets in the lane.
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It looked to me like Cam didn't have enough lift to dunk on that breakaway.

Adrenaline, and Cleson shooting so poorly, (except from the free throw line) allowed Wake to to have the half time lead. After halftime, Wake's guys legs were gone and so was the adrenaline. Clemson shooting got better, in part because Wake D was half step behind. Wake shooters couldn't hit water from a row boat in the middle of lake superior.
 
Deaconblue said:
It looked to me like Cam didn't have enough lift to dunk on that breakaway.

Adrenaline, and Cleson shooting so poorly, (except from the free throw line) allowed Wake to to have the half time lead. After halftime, Wake's guys legs were gone and so was the adrenaline. Clemson shooting got better, in part because Wake D was half step behind. Wake shooters couldn't hit water from a row boat in the middle of lake superior.
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We were up, but Forbes also thought we should have been in the bonus earlier first half, and we missed some points because of it and they avoided foul trouble (he said he didn't think the officiating was poor overall).

Yeah, Cam has to time his steps better there. Forbes said they had talked about that as well. We know he can do it because of the social media dunk on McCray last summer, but he does seem like a guy who has to make sure he's loading up correctly and can't just bounce up there.
 
I’m definitely glad he’s addressing the possibility of timeouts stemming an opponents run - which I agree sometimes doesn’t work - but I am curious whether he’ll actually do anything differently the next time we’re in this same situation. Because it’s a complaint many on this board have had with him since he got here.

After so many years of coaching, you’d think he’d have settled by now on either employing that strategy or preferring to hold onto his timeouts and let his guys fight through it. Maybe he’s just saying he’s now a little more open to the timeout idea in very certain situations.
 
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