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Moral Monday

PhDeac said:
What country are these people in? Because the government "pays their bills" in America.

Since when is entrepreneurial ownership a "proven wealth creator". Plenty of small businesses fail every year.
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1. Open your eyes.
2. Look around.
3. Count the number of people who became prosperous off of food stamps.
4. Count the number of people who became prosperous off of starting a business.
5. Revisit your assumptions.

eta: The more I read your post, the most excellent it becomes. Congrats. That is amazingly delusional. It's like you just think prosperity dropped out of the sky. Just astonishingly naïve.
 
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WakeandBake said:
So if we just stop giving them money, they will create their own jobs on construction sites with ladders and old vans and be tired men and then they'll own a company and stuff. its so damn simple, you know?
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I like the long term prospects of people who are working jobs "nobody wants" over the long term prospects of people doing nothing but waiting for the next check to come in the mail. Every. Time.

P.S. You said there were no jobs. I showed you some jobs. Where do the goal posts go next?
 
jhmd2000 said:
Someone should tell the millions of people coming to this country that there are no jobs here. They must all be mistaken.
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yeah, someone should.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 
jhmd2000 said:
I like the long term prospects of people who are working jobs "nobody wants" over the long term prospects of people doing nothing but waiting for the next check to come in the mail. Every. Time.

P.S. You said there were no jobs. I showed you some jobs. Where do the goal posts go next?
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So all these jobs on construction sites are registered with the state and the employers are paying FICA etc for each of those roofers? The owners of those tomato picking companies that hire the illegal immigrants too?

jhmd you have opened my eyes. its all so simple. The American poor turn down good jobs to rape the taxpayers of their hard-earned money and the job creators are forced to hire illegal immigrants against their better judgement.
 
jhmd2000 said:
1. Open your eyes.
2. Look around.
3. Count the number of people who became prosperous off of food stamps.
4. Count the number of people who became prosperous off of starting a business.
5. Revisit your assumptions.

eta: The more I read your post, the most excellent it becomes. Congrats. That is amazingly delusional. It's like you just think prosperity dropped out of the sky. Just astonishingly naïve.
Click to expand...

How does someone with no capital and no money start a business?
 
WakeandBake said:
So all these jobs on construction sites are registered with the state and the employers are paying FICA etc for each of those roofers? The owners of those tomato picking companies that hire the illegal immigrants too?

jhmd you have opened my eyes. its all so simple. The American poor turn down good jobs to rape the taxpayers of their hard-earned money and the job creators are forced to hire illegal immigrants against their better judgement.
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As previously stated, if I was economically disadvantaged and wanted to improve my circumstances, I would choose to work. I wouldn't sit back and let the system almost solve some of my problems for me, and then settle for whatever they thought I should settle for. I wouldn't accept a future that was any short of my own best efforts. If that's not okay for me, then living by the golden rule, it shouldn't be good enough for anyone else either. Please explain why your expectations for what others deserve falls beneath your expectations for what you deserve. What did they do to deserve less than what you get?
 
WakeandBake said:
How does someone with no capital and no money start a business?
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Sit back and wait for a government check, of course. Duh.

eta: What did your family do? Did your ancestors come to this country with a cup running over with capital? My guess is if everything was great, they would never have left the mother country. My guess is that the first generation to come here worked jobs nobody else wanted, sent their kids to school to earn degrees to improve their social and economic standing, had higher expectations and standards for their children, and worked to improve. They sacrificed, saved and moved up. That's what immigrants are doing today, right? The old, white van full of first generation Americans with a first-generation American name on the side are this century's Irish/Italian immigrants (whose grandchildren now own businesses and have advanced degrees). They nobly tread in the footsteps of many people before them. No?

Before you say it, there are entire families of Americans who came here involuntarily. I think we all know that, the question is what now? Do we go with what always works, or do we go with what never works? I think effort, sacrifice, standards, accountability and eventually ownership of the means always, always beats any other plan in the long run.
 
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jhmd2000 said:
As previously stated, if I was economically disadvantaged and wanted to improve my circumstances, I would choose to work. I wouldn't sit back and let the system almost solve some of my problems for me, and then settle for whatever they thought I should settle for. I wouldn't accept a future that was any short of my own best efforts. If that's not okay for me, then living by the golden rule, it shouldn't be good enough for anyone else either. Please explain why your expectations for what others deserve falls beneath your expectations for what you deserve. What did they do to deserve less than what you get?
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I knew you couldn't answer the FICA question or the starting a business question.

Just like on the other thread a couple of weeks ago that you slinked away from when pressed to answer how many food stamp receivers were legit and how many were gamers. You and Wrangor pounded your blame the poor drums until it was time to give some hard numbers and you withered away.
 
WakeandBake said:
I knew you couldn't answer the FICA question or the starting a business question.

Just like on the other thread a couple of weeks ago that you slinked away from when pressed to answer how many food stamp receivers were legit and how many were gamers. You and Wrangor pounded your blame the poor drums until it was time to give some hard numbers and you withered away.
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I can't decide whether you want to solve the problem or just numb the symptoms. None of your solutions do anything other than the latter (and have the not-hard-to-see-side-effect of ensuring reliable political loyalty through economic subjugation and dependency). Again I ask, how do your solutions lead to a long-term solution? Answer: they don't. They never have. They never will.

eta: Not to be missed, the answer to your "capital" question is self-evident. What did your local painter get his capital to start his painting business? Five grand for a van, and five hundred dollars in ladders, brushes and paint? I'm pretty sure that those things are attainable in our economy.
 
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Please produce the numbers I asked for a month ago regarding how many receivers of government aid are legit and how many are gamers. I even provided you the formula. Until you can answer that simple question your entire premise has no value.
 
WakeandBake said:
run along and judge some single black mothers
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Gladly. I judge that they deserve better than they're current plight and prospects. Evidently that is not an opinion bathed in unanimity. Do you plan on continuing to lie to them with false hope and look down on them with your lowered expectations for who they are and what they deserve?
 
jhmd2000 said:
Gladly. I judge that they deserve better than they're current plight and prospects. Evidently that is not an opinion bathed in unanimity. Do you plan on continuing to lie to them with false hope and look down on them with your lowered expectations for who they are and what they deserve?
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I plan on making sure they and their children are fed and medicated because I am a human being with empathy.

eta: you, on the other hand, are masking your contempt for them with your convoluted socioeconomic theories that you think make you race-neutral and pro opportunity - when in fact you just don't want to pay as much in taxes.
 
WakeandBake said:
Please produce the numbers I asked for a month ago regarding how many receivers of government aid are legit and how many are gamers. I even provided you the formula. Until you can answer that simple question your entire premise has no value.
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What a delightful off-road out of this argument into the point and place of beginning (the comfort of your false assumptions). Let's say I provided you with the answer to the unknowable question you've posed. Let's just say.

Then what? How does that fact, or not, change the fact that you wouldn't settle for the life you thrust on others? It doesn't, does it?
 
WakeandBake said:
I plan on making sure they and their children are fed and medicated because I am a human being with empathy.
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That's not how you treat a human being. That's how you treat a captive. You treat a human being with the empathy you'd expect and accept in return.

Now I need evidence that you'd settle for the life that the victims of the welfare state are living, in their fourth generation. But I won't be holding my breath for it, since by your own actions you show that you wouldn't settle for that life.
 
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