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Most Bothersome Wake Forest Development in the last 12 months? Pit/Tunnels Adjace

Louis Gossett Jr said:
Never thought I’d see the day DR goes woke but that’s what he is arguing for to keep Wake’s ranking high.
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DR isn't going woke any more than the CEO's mollifying institutional investors by implementing empty ESG policies. He is simply recognizing influences on the market.
 
wfu22fan said:
Damn, dude. How many times do you have to tell us what a rich and successful guy you are on the scoreboard of life? Do you not realize how much that turns people’s stomachs?
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There's another horrific Wake core value not shared at places like Duke. "Don't ever talk about money. Don't share your successes and those deals that have gone bad. And darn sure don't tell kids. Let them fail on their own. They'll learn themselves."
 
IamThunderbolt said:
You haven't defined the parameters. What are you ranking? "Best School" is such a nebulous category that its meaningless. If we're talking universities, for most of them teaching/education is not the only part of its mission. Most generally have a balance of education, research, and community engagement/praxis (PRAXIS!). Wake has really focused on the first in its self-understanding and mission and would do better in that metric v/ others.

UNCG is the most diverse school in NC and is the top school in the state for social mobility - which is a reflection on its mission/purpose. Is it an objectively worse school than Wake? Without defining parameters, it's an unanswerable question. Because, based on ranking, it is doing what it is trying to do better than Wake is doing what it is trying to do.
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There is subjectivity in judging which schools are the best, certainly, but I think most people know generally what it means. Is Harvard a better school than Wake Forest? Is Wake Forest a better school than Charlotte? Is UNC Chapel Hill a better school than Appalachian State? Even now, decades after I went to Wake, if someone asks and I tell them I went to Wake I always get a reaction - "ohhhh, great school" or something similar. They may be being polite but I do not hear the same reaction when someone says they went to NCSU or whatever... Of course we are talking about reputations and perceptions here - but what else is there for people to judge by?

Obviously, each individual student applies their own priorities to any determination of which school is better for them - and those priorities vary widely. But, I believe a lot of kids (not all) basically want to go to the "best" school that otherwise fits their priority profile and which they can get in. Like it or not, kids need some barometer to use to judge what schools are better than others.

Also like it or not, the USNews list has become one of the main sources for that data. So when they go screwing around with their criteria to such a large degree the repercussions echo throughout academia and into every HS in America and, I guess, around the world. So we can pooh-pooh the rankings as meaningless or silly but, in the end, they matter and they matter a lot.

And with that I have said more than enough on the topic... Go Deacs!
 
donaldross said:
Class size was very important to me because all the folks in education told me how important it was. It never dawned on me that they were in education for a reason. Now that I'm in the real world I see first hand that was a giant myth.

My best classes at Wake, Duke and UNC had lots of folks in them whom I built relationships with. I became a multimillionaire leveraging those relationships. I have not a damn clue what they taught in the classes and I can assure you Russian history won't help you in life. Even if taught by a dude talking to 20 hungover students as opposed to 100.
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I'd like you to explain what industry made you a multimillionaire. Because I'm pretty sure it wasn't legal.
 
MichDeac25 said:
I'd like you to explain what industry made you a multimillionaire. Because I'm pretty sure it wasn't legal.
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I'm not allowed to talk about it or i'll get in trouble with 22.

Kidding, it's no secret i've won millions in judgments in many cases. Anyone can review this state's appellate courts and other states and see that. I've had a couple 8 figure settlements as well. But I've made way more money in real estate--airbnb, house flips, hotels, rental properties. That's why it's so critical to educate the young right away about money. If you buy as much real estate as possible in your 20s, it's really hard to flop. We should be teaching that class at Wake Forest. If you wait until you are in your 40s, you are likely to be rich about the time you die.

Those that know me on here know I get in kids I care about face about these issues. They don't teach them in school. I have lots of various LLCs with several here--and their kids when they reach 18. I'm hated it for by many and don't give two shits.
 
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scooter84 said:
There is subjectivity in judging which schools are the best, certainly, but I think most people know generally what it means. Is Harvard a better school than Wake Forest? Is Wake Forest a better school than Charlotte? Is UNC Chapel Hill a better school than Appalachian State? Even now, decades after I went to Wake, if someone asks and I tell them I went to Wake I always get a reaction - "ohhhh, great school" or something similar. They may be being polite but I do not hear the same reaction when someone says they went to NCSU or whatever... Of course we are talking about reputations and perceptions here - but what else is there for people to judge by?

Obviously, each individual student applies their own priorities to any determination of which school is better for them - and those priorities vary widely. But, I believe a lot of kids (not all) basically want to go to the "best" school that otherwise fits their priority profile and which they can get in. Like it or not, kids need some barometer to use to judge what schools are better than others.

Also like it or not, the USNews list has become one of the main sources for that data. So when they go screwing around with their criteria to such a large degree the repercussions echo throughout academia and into every HS in America and, I guess, around the world. So we can pooh-pooh the rankings as meaningless or silly but, in the end, they matter and they matter a lot.

And with that I have said more than enough on the topic... Go Deacs!
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Right. So we generally know what schools are the best because rankings like this tell us so.

Are there that many repercussions? How many schools rose or dropped 20+ spots? I can't find last year's list but this year's list looks pretty much like I remember except for Wake.
 
donaldross said:
I'm not allowed to talk about it or i'll get in trouble with 22.

Kidding, it's no secret i've won millions in judgments in many cases. Anyone can review this state's appellate courts and other states and see that. I've had a couple 8 figure settlements as well. But I've made way more money in real estate--airbnb, house flips, hotels, rental properties. That's why it's so critical to educate the young right away about money. If you buy as much real estate as possible in your 20s, it's really hard to flop. We should be teaching that class at Wake Forest. If you wait until you are in your 40s, you are likely to be rich about the time you die.

Those that know me on here no I get in kids I care about face about these issues. They don't teach them in school. I have lots of various LLCs with several here--and their kids when they reach 18. I'm hated it for by many and don't give two shits.
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I don't know DR and I'm not here to defend or prosecute. But, having been an investor my entire life? What he stated in BOLD is simply the truth. You can hate the messenger but it's the God's honest truth.

You can create a spreadsheet in 10 minutes to show a 20-something how to become a millionaire with a very nominal income. There really is no magic. Now, when they're 40? That's a different story.
 
Regarding the large drop in the US News list, I'm professor like others on this board, having taught at Wake from 1981 to 2013 before retiring as a Reynolds Professor, after working many years at Tennessee and in Engineering at NCSU. My impression is that over the last 10 years Wake has not increased incentives enough to hire and keep highly qualified faculty in research who are able to obtain outside research funding as well as being excellent in teaching. Bringing in research money to the University helps to recruit very qualified undergraduate as well as graduate students. For example, here is a statement on this matter circulating campus. Why is it that the cost of housing has risen by over 50% in Winston-Salem and cost of attendance at WFU has increased by over 40% in the last decade, but faculty salaries have stayed essentially flat?
 
wfu22fan said:
The difference is that you can meet with the professor if you have questions or are having difficulty with a concept or course. I’ve been told that rarely happens at UNC. Also, WF academic deans are helpful. WF wants its students to succeed and stay at WF. Living on campus, having the family feeling at WF, and having tremendous academic support means a lot to most students. I can’t imagine experiencing what many of my high school friends did in college at UNC, NCSU, ASU and ECU— living off campus and knowing only those students who live in an apartment complex or in a frat, huge classes, and 30,000 students.
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but just because that is what you wanted/needed/enjoyed from your college experience, doesn't mean it's a better experience. It's just what was better for you There are thousands of people who don't care about that and WANT to live off campus and have huge classes and be somewhat anonymous.
 
PhDeac said:
Rafi, you know it’s often not either teaching or research. At that hypothetical university, there are several changes they could make. They could keep more research active faculty at a one course load and give less research active faculty an additional course. They could hire more faculty. None of this is an either/or.
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Of course my hypothetical was a simplified version, but with a set budget, it is often an either/or situation. Sure, you could hire more faculty, but that's a major expense. I was demonstrating how chasing the new rankings variables could lead to a decline in the undergrad experience. US News basically admits as much because they did not include any of the new faculty citation parameters in the formula for Liberal Arts colleges.
 
plemmons said:
My impression is that over the last 10 years Wake has not increased incentives enough to hire and keep highly qualified faculty in research who are able to obtain outside research funding as well as being excellent in teaching.
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This is an understatement. Wake is very content to just hire instructors and pay them poorly.
 
Rafi said:
Of course my hypothetical was a simplified version, but with a set budget, it is often an either/or situation. Sure, you could hire more faculty, but that's a major expense. I was demonstrating how chasing the new rankings variables could lead to a decline in the undergrad experience. US News basically admits as much because they did not include any of the new faculty citation parameters in the formula for Liberal Arts colleges.
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Because people don't judge Liberal Arts colleges by faculty citations. Wake decided not to play in the lane, so Wake is judged by the same standard as Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, etc.
 
PhDeac said:
Right. So we generally know what schools are the best because rankings like this tell us so.

Are there that many repercussions? How many schools rose or dropped 20+ spots? I can't find last year's list but this year's list looks pretty much like I remember except for Wake.
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Taken from an online article:

Schools that made the biggest leaps in the rankings since last year were Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in North Carolina (up 106 places to No. 296), the University of Texas at San Antonio (up 92 places to No. 280) and California State University, East Bay (up 88 places to No. 296).

Other big movers included Rutgers University-Newark, which jumped more than 30 spots to No. 82, and the University of California, Merced, which climbed from No. 97 to No. 60.

But the new ranking formula caused some schools, particularly private institutions, to tumble. The University of Chicago dropped from No. 6 to No. 12. Wash U dropped from 15 to 24. Wake Forest fell from No. 29 to No. 47. And Tulane plummeted from No. 44 to No. 73. Elon dropped from 89 to 133.
 
Any idea what percentage of last year's top 150 jumped or fell more than 20 spots?
 
PhDeac said:
Because people don't judge Liberal Arts colleges by faculty citations. Wake decided not to play in the lane, so Wake is judged by the same standard as Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, etc.
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That's my point - they didn't judge the national universities that way either, until this year.
 
Rafi said:
That's my point - they didn't judge the national universities that way either, until this year.
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Yet faculty citations have always been a factor for national universities. They're adjusting the criteria to fit reality.
 
PhDeac said:
Any idea what percentage of last year's top 150 jumped or fell more than 20 spots?
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I haven't seen anything like that, and it's hard because once the 2024 rankings are up, the 2023 rankings seem to disappear online.

As I was looking, I found something that really emphasizes your point that weighing the parameters different creates totally different lists. In 2023, US News ranked Harvard #3 in the US, but they also created global rankings and Harvard was #1 in the world.
 
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