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Muslim WFU Law Student Writes...

You have no idea what you are talking about. I speak with command level military people on a regular basis and the PC analysis is spot on in this case.

The PC analysis might have some legs if they didn't know he had contacts with al Alaki and his website. At that point he is a security risk and it's their duty to build a case agaisnt him or simply get rid of him without any ballyhoo.

Blaming all that's happening on PC is lazy and totally inaccurate.
 
The PC analysis might have some legs if they didn't know he had contacts with al Alaki and his website. At that point he is a security risk and it's their duty to build a case agaisnt him or simply get rid of him without any ballyhoo.

Blaming all that's happening on PC is lazy and totally inaccurate.

Bets on whether they learned that from one of your dreaded warrantless wire taps?
 
Why should I or anyone else need or have to debate about 1. Whether religious intolerance occurs against the Muslim community at large in America, and 2. Whether an American Muslim has room to complain about said religious intolerance. It's a simple premise, which doesn't need to be twisted and made complicated for the purpose of debate. Religious intolerance against Muslims in America most certainly does occur: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/09/plans-build-tennessee-islamic-centers/
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/09/muslim_and_america_nine_years.html
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/16/3630138/cair-asks-fbi-to-probe-texas-mosque.html

Once we've objectively accepted the fact that intolerance occurs, are we supposed to debate whether it's ok or not? Whether Muslims have the right to talk about it in a newspaper?

Go peddle your opinion by the Thames river or on a Paris streetcorner...see how much sympathy you incur today as opposed to, say, if you had done the same 20 years ago. Your argument will fall upon deaf ears. Oh yes, they still believe in liberty and tolerance they are just tired of the two-faced game.
 
Go peddle your opinion by the Thames river or on a Paris streetcorner...see how much sympathy you incur today as opposed to, say, if you had done the same 20 years ago. Your argument will fall upon deaf ears. Oh yes, they still believe in liberty and tolerance they are just tired of the two-faced game.

2 or 3 of you keep avoiding the main point of each of my posts. No one asked you about, or brought up France. This thread is about the experience of innocent American Muslims since 9/11. The September 11th terrorist attacks are not an excuse to commit hate crimes and be intolerant of Muslims in America. If you can't respond to that simple premise, then you aren't really trying to debate anything.
 
2 or 3 of you keep avoiding the main point of each of my posts. No one asked you about, or brought up France. This thread is about the experience of innocent American Muslims since 9/11. The September 11th terrorist attacks are not an excuse to commit hate crimes and be intolerant of Muslims in America. If you can't respond to that simple premise, then you aren't really trying to debate anything.


What can be said...we disagree. With you the story is profound and is cause for alarm. For me, it does not resonate.
 
2 or 3 of you keep avoiding the main point of each of my posts. No one asked you about, or brought up France. This thread is about the experience of innocent American Muslims since 9/11. The September 11th terrorist attacks are not an excuse to commit hate crimes and be intolerant of Muslims in America. If you can't respond to that simple premise, then you aren't really trying to debate anything.

Hmmm, my caller i.d. says S. Trawman. I don't recognize that one; better let it go to voicemail.
 
Hmmm, my caller i.d. says S. Trawman. I don't recognize that one; better let it go to voicemail.

Maybe you should read the article, instead of trying to be clever.

"...The Department of Justice reported a 1,600 percent increase in hate crimes against Muslim Americans after 9/11. Recently, the EEOC reported that 25 percent of all employment discrimination complaints received came from Muslims — even though Muslims make up only 1-2 percent of the population."

If anyone is trying to dodge the original premise, it's you.
 
Maybe you should read the article, instead of trying to be clever.

"...The Department of Justice reported a 1,600 percent increase in hate crimes against Muslim Americans after 9/11. Recently, the EEOC reported that 25 percent of all employment discrimination complaints received came from Muslims — even though Muslims make up only 1-2 percent of the population."

If anyone is trying to dodge the original premise, it's you.

Yes, but no one here is arguing that, so I'm not sure who you think you're talking (down) to. The point remains his complaints don't even come close to the real suffering caused by these attacks, and he would have been better served to keep them to himself: it does the real victims a tremendous disservice.
 
Yes, but no one here is arguing that, so I'm not sure who you think you're talking (down) to. The point remains his complaints don't even come close to the real suffering caused by these attacks, and he would have been better served to keep them to himself: it does the real victims a tremendous disservice.

Inexcusable hate crimes and prejudice against innocent American Muslims, such as Mosque burnings, cause real suffering, and that suffering rightly deserves to examined. The suffering of your "real victims" is irrelevant to this discussion, because the article isn't about them, nor does it need to be, because there are already thousands of articles about that day, and the people there. The 9/11 attacks caused a chain of tragedies, and the American Muslim perspective in this article highlights a link in that chain. His suffering was caused by the attacks, just as many non-Muslim Americans, and that's the point of the article.
 
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His suffering was caused by the attacks, that's the point of the article. What don't you get about that? Is your point that hate crimes against American Muslims, such as Mosque burnings, don't count as real suffering? Why don't you explain how his article is a "disservice" to specific victims of 9/11. Explain how a man speaking out about injustice, is doing a disservice to anyone besides the people responsible for that injustice.

Has he been the victim of a hate crime?
 
Would it matter? He didn't die in the World Trade Center, so he couldn't have suffered.

Oh, I see. The fact that he's Muslim means all atrocities against Muslims are portable among them, since they're all the same. Thanks for clearing that up.

P.S. Check mate. :thumbsup:
 
Oh, I see. The fact that he's Muslim means all atrocities against Muslims are portable among them, since they're all the same. Thanks for clearing that up.

P.S. Check mate. :thumbsup:

Again, try reading the article; He uses the possessives "I" and "My" throughout the article, in describing his perspective. Did he claim to be the victim of a hate crime? No. Are you going to question whether his life as a Muslim American was permanently altered, since he didn't die that day? On what grounds do you deem him undeserving of justice or apology?


"Osama bin Laden devastated my life as an American. But he permanently altered my life as a Muslim American. As an American, my soul finally found some relief upon the news of his death. As a Muslim American, though, my soul found little relief, as it continues, even after his death, to be surrounded by the fires of anti-Muslim prejudice that have engulfed my country. As a Muslim American, I did find relief in the first words that I and many in my community uttered upon hearing the news of his death. Those words were the humble Islamic proclamation: "God is the Most Great."

The anti-Muslim prejudice he speaks of either exists, or it doesn't; If it exists, it's either excused or unexcused. IMO, it does exist, and there is no excuse for it. You have as of yet to define your meandering opinion on the matter. Instead of making a clear claim, you make some remark about me being condescending, and duck and dodge the issue.
 
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Again, try reading the article; He uses the possessives "I" and "My" throughout the article, in describing his perspective. Did he claim to be the victim of a hate crime? No. Are you going to question whether his life as a Muslim American was permanently altered, since he didn't die that day? On what grounds do you deem him undeserving of justice or apology?


"Osama bin Laden devastated my life as an American. But he permanently altered my life as a Muslim American. As an American, my soul finally found some relief upon the news of his death. As a Muslim American, though, my soul found little relief, as it continues, even after his death, to be surrounded by the fires of anti-Muslim prejudice that have engulfed my country. As a Muslim American, I did find relief in the first words that I and many in my community uttered upon hearing the news of his death. Those words were the humble Islamic proclamation: "God is the Most Great."

The anti-Muslim prejudice he speaks of either exists, or it doesn't; If it exists, it's either excused or unexcused. IMO, it does exist, and there is no excuse for it. You have as of yet to define your meandering opinion on the matter. Instead of making a clear claim, you make some remark about me being condescending, and duck and dodge the issue.

I think we've reached the point where we're through. It's clear to me that this guy's bitching plays to the sounds of the world's smallest violin. Basically, other people (not him) were killed in these attacks; other people (again, not him) have been targeted by hate crimes; and he's been a part of the most investigated community in America after 9/11 ("him"...I guess...but who exactly does he propose we investigate to interdict attacks by Muslim extremists?....so, *yawn*).

The real victims of 9/11 don't have to write whining editorials about all they've been through, b/c, well, you know, they've actually been through something. This guy's metaphors and contagious suffering are a nonstarter for me; sorry. I save my sympathy for people who have actually had bad things happen to...THEM.

And no, I don't consider your futile attempts to forcefeed strawman arguments about excusing hate crimes onto anyone on this thread. No one's said anything close to that. Ever.
 
You are excusing intolerance by ignorantly trying to discredit the authors experience. You're saying he didn't suffer enough to complain, when 1. You don't know how much he suffered. 2. You have no authority to decide how much suffering "is enough". The guy wrote an op-ed piece describing a seldom heard perspective on 9/11 and you refuse to believe or acknowledge it for no reason other than an ignorantly preconceived notion of who "real" victims are. Even as a southern WASP American, I've had enough experience with Muslim friends to know, know how prevalent anti-Muslim sentiment is. Whether or not you've experienced this sentiment, you certainly have no grounds to deny it, yet you've done so - passionately. Your argument: Others suffered more.
 
Since we know where everyone stands now, I'm done as well.
 
Maybe you should read the article, instead of trying to be clever.

"...The Department of Justice reported a 1,600 percent increase in hate crimes against Muslim Americans after 9/11. Recently, the EEOC reported that 25 percent of all employment discrimination complaints received came from Muslims — even though Muslims make up only 1-2 percent of the population."
If anyone is trying to dodge the original premise, it's you.

On the other hand, this could also indicate that Muslims are a religiously litigous bunch. Large parts of the Koran read more like a law book than a religious text anyway, and, of course, our correspndent is studying to be a lawyer too. :)
 
You are excusing intolerance by ignorantly trying to discredit the authors experience. You're saying he didn't suffer enough to complain, when 1. You don't know how much he suffered. 2. You have no authority to decide how much suffering "is enough". The guy wrote an op-ed piece describing a seldom heard perspective on 9/11 and you refuse to believe or acknowledge it for no reason other than an ignorantly preconceived notion of who "real" victims are. Even as a southern WASP American, I've had enough experience with Muslim friends to know, know how prevalent anti-Muslim sentiment is. Whether or not you've experienced this sentiment, you certainly have no grounds to deny it, yet you've done so - passionately. Your argument: Others suffered more.

Ah, so his chief complaint is anti-Muslim sentiment. He's a victim of bad feelings and thoughts.

Bad thoughts, then?

The humanity.
 
We are all victims of 9-11, are we not? Do I have to be physically harmed or have someone I know be physically harmed to be a victim? It caused my nation great psychological harm. I wept when it happened. does that make me a whiner? You fucking tough, worldly guys are too much, man. Too much.

Go on with your bad selves...keep on kicking ass!!! No wonder the South Park guys have had a field day with your types.
 
We are all victims of 9-11, are we not? Do I have to be physically harmed or have someone I know be physically harmed to be a victim? It caused my nation great psychological harm. I wept when it happened. does that make me a whiner? You fucking tough, worldly guys are too much, man. Too much.

Go on with your bad selves...keep on kicking ass!!! No wonder the South Park guys have had a field day with your types.

...where all the children are above average...

Yep, I can hardly tell the difference between myself and Lisa Beamer. Her unarmed loved one was the victim of a 500 mph pile driver from 30,000 feet, and I once had someone think bad thoughts about me. Frankly, I don't know how I ever keep our suffering straight.
 
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