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New York legalizes gay marriage

Wakelaw2006 said:
I agree that religious marriage and legal marriage should be completely separate things, but the fact is that they are not. That being the case, it would be a very clear cut violation of the religion clauses of the First Amendment for the state to require clergy to perform weddings.
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I agree that it would be a First Amendment violation to require clergy to perform weddings. I do find it fascinating that some people are putting so much energy and resources into continuing to deny equal marriage rights to homosexuals. Especially when so little energy is put into marriage otherwise. Getting a marriage license is a joke. And I am a pastor and have performed weddings in 6 states. Never once have I had to prove my credentials. Nobody cares. I just sign the marriage license and send it back to Register of Deeds. But then when 2 people who have been in a long-term, loving and committed relationship want to get married, just because they are the same sex, suddenly everybody cares.
 
In my humble opinion, and maybe at the risk of stating the obvious, "marriage" lost its claim to being an exclusively religious institution when the government got involved and turned it into a civil institution. I support NY's decision. I used to think that the government should only provide civil unions (no "marriage" under law for anyone), but have come to the conclusion that doing so would be pandering to people who say marriage is "religious," even though the terms now has multiple meanings. That train left the station a long time ago. (Reminds me of the confederate flag issue, but that is another argument altogether. My view is "put the flag away." Sure, it might be "heritage," but it means other things, too.)

Inevitably, marriage will become widely available to the gay community. Will this create pressures and expectations for gay people to get married? Will rifts develop in the LGBT community? While there seems to be growing support for gay citizens, I don't see the same public support developing for bi- men and the transgender community. From my own perspective, gay seems "normal" to me, although that is a view that I have grown into. I don't wish ill will on anyone, but I must admit that transgender still seems a bit odd to me. I hope I don't sound like a troglodyte for asking the questions, but they seem interesting.
 
I think the hidden story in all this is how the gay rights lobby has been fighting the old fight in order to gain a symbolic victory instead of focusing on victories that gay/lesbian singles can use. Marriage is an old school institution nowadays. They fight should be from young people and gay/lesbian to deconstruct the legal advantages of marriage in terms of taxes and health care and other areas.
 
PhDeac said:
I think the hidden story in all this is how the gay rights lobby has been fighting the old fight in order to gain a symbolic victory instead of focusing on victories that gay/lesbian singles can use. Marriage is an old school institution nowadays. They fight should be from young people and gay/lesbian to deconstruct the legal advantages of marriage in terms of taxes and health care and other areas.
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IMO that would be a harder fight than getting gay marriage legalized...especially given the turning of opinion on this issue. If they tried that opponents to gay marriage would hammer the point "they are ruining the institution of marriage".
 
the authors of this legislation did a good job of protecting churches from any possibility of litigation or penalty--that was the focus of the negotiations the past week.

Cuomo did an impressive job of managing this process, and the result is, i think, a great thing for New York and the country.
 
This is the first step to getting rid of the institutionalized hate laws against gays in dozens of states. In over twenty states you can be fired for being gay but not for being striaght or Jewish or Chrisitan.

In more states than that you be denied a place to live for being gay. That is abhoorent to everything that is America.

You don't have to agree with people being gay to say that these types of laws are anti-American.
 
TheShot said:
the authors of this legislation did a good job of protecting churches from any possibility of litigation or penalty--that was the focus of the negotiations the past week.

Cuomo did an impressive job of managing this process, and the result is, i think, a great thing for New York and the country.
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Whoa. What was there to negotiate? Who wanted to be able to sue churches?
 
Thanks. Appreciate the ACLU statement at the end.
 
Shot, why don't you talk the majority conservatives and conservative groups that were vehemently opposed to marriage equality?
 
RJKarl said:
Shot, why don't you talk the majority conservatives and conservative groups that were vehemently opposed to marriage equality?
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not sure why i should. they don't speak for me on this issue, nor the other way around.

i'm a conservative on a variety of issues. i've also been supportive of gay marriage for a long time.

"conservatives" are not a monolithic group.
 
an overwhelming percentage of public conservatives are oppsed to this...

What's your position that make it OK to fire someone just being gay?

How about the laws that make it legal to discriminate against gays in housing?
 
RJKarl said:
This is the first step to getting rid of the institutionalized hate laws against gays in dozens of states. In over twenty states you can be fired for being gay but not for being striaght or Jewish or Chrisitan.

In more states than that you be denied a place to live for being gay. That is abhoorent to everything that is America.

You don't have to agree with people being gay to say that these types of laws are anti-American.
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In what states can you be fired for being gay?
 
RJKarl said:
Shot, why don't you talk the majority conservatives and conservative groups that were vehemently opposed to marriage equality?
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Shocked that RJ is trying to pick a fight on an issue that pretty much everyone here is in agreement on.
 
RJKarl said:
an overwhelming percentage of public conservatives are oppsed to this...

What's your position that make it OK to fire someone just being gay?

How about the laws that make it legal to discriminate against gays in housing?
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um, i'm against them, obviously,

i really don't know what to tell you, rj.

we have different views on lots of economic and perhaps some foreign policy areas. we happen to strongly agree on this issue, but rather than echo what i said earlier--Friday's bill passage was a great thing for NY (i happen to be a Manhattan resident at present) and the country--you seem intent on holding me responsible for the positions of lots of other conservatives who are NOT me.

i'm also against the death penalty and support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. i'm sorry if i don't live up to the stereotype of a scary, "right-winger."
 
RJKarl said:
an overwhelming percentage of public conservatives are oppsed to this...

What's your position that make it OK to fire someone just being gay?

How about the laws that make it legal to discriminate against gays in housing?
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lol
 
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