• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Obama will lose in a Landslide

obama camp believes Indiana is too far gone, and won't spend money there unless something changes.

they will vigorously defend some of the other traditionally red gains, such as VA and NC. they think it's important symbolically, as well as electorally.

by the math, obama can lose FL and OH and still win easily. realistically, however, those are such huge and bellwether states, that it is unlikely any candidate would lose both and not lose a bunch elsewhere, too. (not saying he will lose them, so no freakout please.)

By the math obama can losethe followinfg from 2008 and still win:

OH
FL
IN
NC
VA
IA

If Scott doesn't have a miraculous comeback, Obama will hold FL. This week's trip to Puerto Rico was about the FL. There has been significant migration from PR to the Orlando/Tampa corridor.

There are a lot of old people and close to old people in OH. The combination of getting screwed by Kasich and Ryan's plan along the auto success and it will be tough to turn OH.

Also if Romeny is the candidate, many Tea Partiers will stay home.

If Perry is the candidate his secession lunacy and extremist RW politics will drive the middle to Obama in droves.

This is about handicapping. It's more about the fact there is no really good GOP candidate.
 
The demographics have been "trending against" Republicans since the 70s. You would think that the Democrats would have won every election since then.
 
You are going to have to start getting used to the fact that 2008 was an anomaly, rj. I know it's hard to accept, but Democrats are not going to get that kind of turnout ever again. NC and VA aren't the swing states of the future. Democrats are not going to be competing for those states going forward.
 
Has any Republican candidate offered a plan to lower unemployment and reduce gas prices? Not a dog and pony show, legitimate actions. Drill baby drill and reduce taxes are too vague btw.

Actually, drilling demonstrably accomplishes both. Witness North Dakota.

Get the hell out of the middle east and stop destabilizing regimes by our presence there and oil will go down again.
 
I think the Democrat strategy in FL will be "Vote Democrat and send Gov. Rick Scott a message" similar to how the incumbent Republicans rode national anti-incumbent sentiment in 2010. Democrats in FL have a rare opportunity to use a hated Republican governor to build support. It will be interesting to see if Rubio and other FL Pubs with high aspirations distance themselves from Scott.

So many Floridians can personally identify a way that Rick Scott policies have negatively impacted them and can even point to how his decisions have given away jobs and led to firings. It's an easier sell that Rick Scott is the economic boogie man than Obama.
 
TR, to win the GOP has to run all those states and another state. There's no point spreads.

It's not an anamoly when the GOP is not going to get more than 4-6% of the black vote in 2012.

With the anti-immigration stance the GOP has taken, the 67% the Dems got from the growing Hispanic should expand.

It should be closer than 2008 unless the GOP really runs on Ryan's plan. if they do, Obama will win as big as he did.
 
Actually, drilling demonstrably accomplishes both. Witness North Dakota.

Get the hell out of the middle east and stop destabilizing regimes by our presence there and oil will go down again.

The presence we have in eastern part of the middle East is due to the war that was started on the basis of lies.

We could lower the price of oil tomorrow by 15% by making speculating in the oil markets more difficult.
 
I think the Democrat strategy in FL will be "Vote Democrat and send Gov. Rick Scott a message" similar to how the incumbent Republicans rode national anti-incumbent sentiment in 2010. Democrats in FL have a rare opportunity to use a hated Republican governor to build support. It will be interesting to see if Rubio and other FL Pubs with high aspirations distance themselves from Scott.

So many Floridians can personally identify a way that Rick Scott policies have negatively impacted them and can even point to how his decisions have given away jobs and led to firings. It's an easier sell that Rick Scott is the economic boogie man than Obama.

Is there precedent for how a state feels about its governor actually mattering in the general election for president?
 
The presence we have in eastern part of the middle East is due to the war that was started on the basis of lies.

We could lower the price of oil tomorrow by 15% by making speculating in the oil markets more difficult.

Why shouldn't investors be able to price in risk where risk exists?

At this point it doesn't really matter why that presence is being maintained and even expanded in the eastern or western Middle East (not that I've ever heard of anyone making that east-west distinction). Fact is our presence is destabilizing the region, and that destabilization is increasing the risk premium in oil prices. Neither of those statements are really very arguable.

Btw, if you did decrease the price of oil 15%, the market would go down with it, probably about that much. It's 2007 again...as commodities go, the market goes.
 
Last edited:
Why shouldn't investors be able to price in risk where risk exists?

I didn't say that. But there should be reasonable rules to prevent people from unfairly fixing the market.

If you want to buy a contract put up at least 50% of the value of the commodity if you aren't ever going to take dlievery.
 
I didn't say that. But there should be reasonable rules to prevent people from unfairly fixing the market.

If you want to buy a contract put up at least 50% of the value of the commodity if you aren't ever going to take dlievery.

Who is unfairly fixing the market?

Where were these cries when Hillary Clinton was trading cattle futures?
 
Who is unfairly fixing the market?

Speculators are causing 12-20% of the pricing of oil without doing anything positive for the market. If you want to buy stock on margin you have to put up much more thna they do. Why shouldn't speculators have the same rules?

Where were these cries when Hillary Clinton was trading cattle futures?

There you go triying to change the subject when you are losing. That was investigated multiple times.
 
From heatingoil..com -not exactly a left wing group:

"Kelleher and Frenk contend that the billons of speculative dollars invested in oil contracts are lifting prices far beyond levels justified by fundamental forces, thereby raising consumer prices and harming OECD economies:

[W]hen speculators control more than 50 per cent of the market, as they do in many commodities today, it is the producers and consumers who lose out to the speculators, not the other way around."

good night.
 
Actually, drilling demonstrably accomplishes both. Witness North Dakota.

Get the hell out of the middle east and stop destabilizing regimes by our presence there and oil will go down again.

Drilling will take a decade to offset our presence in the Middle East, and even then our "oil" is remarkably different than their "oil" from an access and refining standpoint i.e. much more expensive to produce the same product. That's not to say we shouldn't try, but the future of energy isn't fossil fuel and we have a great opportunity to get ahead of the curve.
 
Last edited:
Drilling will take a decade to offset our presence in the Middle East, and even then our "oil" is remarkably different than their "oil" from an access and refining standpoint i.e. much more expensive to produce the same product. That's not to say we shouldn't try, but the future of energy isn't fossil fuel and we have a great opportunity to get ahead of the curve.

Yes, and one of the reasons I voted for Obama was because I thought he was going to take that opportunity to get ahead of the curve, creating jobs by encouraging alternative energy. What ever happened to that?
 
Is there precedent for how a state feels about its governor actually mattering in the general election for president?


i was thinking about that. it's certainly usually more of an off-year thing - you vote in midterms to send a message to pres/party in power, etc.

on a related note, i think the correlation between a state's governor and electoral performance in a presidential is overstated--it is largely a vestige of an earlier political time in which governors controlled statewide levers. it's taken some political reporters a while to get away from that thinking.

i remember how often we heard that Engler (MI) and Ridge (PA) were going to deliver their respective states to Bush in 2000, because they were both established, popular governors of big states. it obviously didn't work out.

Vilsack was supposed to deliver Iowa to Kerry in 2004 and others. i don't know - would be curious if anyone had ever compiled data. there's something to keep nate silver busy for a few days.
 
Great ad idea for the GOP...run a spot showing yesterday's media event with GE's Immelt (no taxes...come on) where they're yucking it up and laughing about how the stimulus was a flop. Nice $1 trillion flop, and great that the president thinks that its so damned funny.

Obviously this joker is in way over his head and has no clue about how to right the ship. I expected nothing less from someone whose greatest accomplishment was getting elected to a few offices and running a glorified soup kitchen.

The question should be what the hell has he done to deserve re-election. 15 million unemployed people is going to be tough as hell to run away from.
 
Why the deck is stacked against a second term for Obama:

(1) Florida and Ohio are the first keys to an electoral landslide for a Republican candidate. If the Republican candidate wins either state, it is highly unlikely that Obama can overcome that loss. Those states are two of the worst hit and if the election were held today Obama could not win either. It's worth noting that both states have Republican governors and strong organizations. Ohio had popular Democrat governor in 2008.

In FL the GOP Gov has a 29% approval rating. In OH, the GOP gov has a 38% and dropping approval rating.

Even if Obama loses -OH, FL, IN and MC hewil lstill have 290+ EV, Thus your premise has no basis in reality.


(20 It's the economy stupid. Even if the unemployment dips to, let's say, 8 or 8.5, that doesn't relieve Obama of the cinderblock of the poor economy. He now has to defend actions he took as President. The stimulus is going to be front and center because he pushed it and said the stimulus will do X, Y, and Z, yet, HIS program did not deliver. 1.9 million jobs have been lost since he spent $850 billion to save them. That is just the tip of the iceberg. The mortage loan modification program has been a disaster. Efforts to jumpstart the economy have come home to roost such as the first time home buyers rebate, "cash for clunkers", etc. If you tie them all together, it will give a Republican candidate an opportunity to state that Obama has "gimmicks" and "programs" that usually fail, but does not have a coherent economic policy that can give certainty of a solid growing U.S. economy to business leaders, markets, IMF, allies, etc. I really think if this was Obama's only issue, it's the most powerful by far and he has very little chance of re-election.

OH and IN will remember the hundreds of thousands of jobs the GM/Chrysler bailout saved.

(3) There has been some shift of Congressional seats, and as a result, Electoral College votes, away from some blue states to red ones. New York and Illinois both are losing seats I believe, but haven't looked at it in a while. These seats are being picked up by Southern and Western states that are growing. In a close election this may tip the balance.

The Ryan plan to kill Medicare is 50/50 to give the House back to the Dems. As I state above Obama can lose IN, NC, FL, OH and twenty more EV and still win.

(4) It will be hard for Obama to keep some of the "one-time" electoral wins. North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado to name a few. Pennsylvania has shifted since 2008, and could present the other major state issue along with Ohio and Florida.

The ONE-Time election is of a Republican in PA where there are over 1M more Dems. CO elected a Dem for the Seante in 2010 and has more Hispanic voters for 2012. it will stay blue.

this. Face palm
 
Kerry was one hell of a candidate in '08.

The spike in oil prices in Bush's 2nd term was definitely placed squarely on his shoulders.

You're making the opposite point. Kerry looks better than the entire Pub field right now, and gas prices didn't swing anything.
 
Back
Top