• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

PA Voter ID law ruled unconstitutional

Shorty said:
There's pretty broad support for it now. Polls I've seen say that 75% of Americans favor voter ID laws.
Click to expand...

Obviously skewed. You need an ID to vote in a poll.
 
Shorty said:
Yeah, I know. I got called one time by a pollster and had to fax a copy of my driver's license before they'd let me answer any questions.
Click to expand...

A fax? Did you get that call from Sarcasm & Irony, Inc. in the 90s?
 
Couldn't mail in a Polaroid and have him call you upon receipt? ;)
 
jhmd2000 said:
Pubs have failed miserably to send the right message to a number of groups. No doubt. A much better approach would ask the question "What has fifty years of voting for the other party gotten you?" I think a clear-eyed look at the results of fifty years of Dem loyalty is the best approach, b/c the statistics paint a dismal picture. It's an unforced error that Pubs have yielded the field to Dems, given what has actually happened over that time span.
Click to expand...

So your argument is that black people aren't better off now than in 1964.
 
PhDeac said:
So your argument is that black people aren't better off now than in 1964.
Click to expand...

No, that's a false choice. We're not asking if people want to get in a time machine and go back. I would say the proper analysis is what would life have been like if you didn't pledge blind loyalty to a party that has taken your vote for granted for the last thirty years. A party that is big on lip service, but whose policies prioritize other groups' interests over a given group's interests.

Do you think that contemporary Dem policy on immigration is in the best interests of the black community?

I am fully aware that the knee-jerk response is that I'm telling certain groups what is best for them. Well, that's a fine and fair accusation; one to which I offer no contest. The difference is the agenda I would ask young children in the black community to embrace is the same one I want for my own children to embrace.

Is the same true for the Dems' approach? I can see a strong argument that the people behind the power structure of the Dem party wouldn't let their own children proceed down the path that they are asking other people's children to settle for.
 
You're saying that if Dem leaders' kids lost their jobs they wouldn't want their kids to take unemployment?

The choice is between Dems and Pubs. Black people have been governed by both at all levels over the last 50 years. To pin things on one party alone is reductionist at best.
 
PhDeac said:
You're saying that if Dem leaders' kids lost their jobs they wouldn't want their kids to take unemployment?

The choice is between Dems and Pubs. Black people have been governed by both at all levels over the last 50 years. To pin things on one party alone is reductionist at best.
Click to expand...

If I was a taken-for-granted constituency of any party, my first agenda item would be no longer taken for granted. Look at what the (actual) Tea Party did (the actual one, not the caricature from RJ-land). When Pubs paid lip service to fiscal conservatism but kept passing bloated budgets after 2000, they rebelled against their own party, and took control of the House in 2010. I understand that you do not like what their agenda is in terms of fiscal policy, but is there any doubt that there voice is being heard now to a greater degree than in the 2000's?

If I were a taken for granted subset of the party, I would put my votes back in play (or I would vocally sit out) until the agenda pushed my interests back to the forefront.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Pubs have failed miserably to send the right message to a number of groups. No doubt. A much better approach would ask the question "What has fifty years of voting for the other party gotten you?" I think a clear-eyed look at the results of fifty years of Dem loyalty is the best approach, b/c the statistics paint a dismal picture. It's an unforced error that Pubs have yielded the field to Dems, given what has actually happened over that time span.
Click to expand...

actually a better approach would be for republicans to come with ideas instead of saying "it is the other guy's fault."

what are the republican ideas?
 
It doesn't matter if we use IDs to do everything. That's not a valid argument to require it for voting. Stop arguing that we use IDs for other shit, it is a stupid position.

Prove that there is a real problem with the status quo that only IDs can fix, and you have something. No one has done that because there is no real problem. The biggest problem is not voter fraud, it is voter apathy, shitty wimpy news media, shiftless bankers, and special interest money.

For Christ's sake stop barking up this tree
 
WakeandBake said:
It doesn't matter if we use IDs to do everything. That's not a valid argument to require it for voting. Stop arguing that we use IDs for other shit, it is a stupid position.

Prove that there is a real problem with the status quo that only IDs can fix, and you have something. No one has done that because there is no real problem. The biggest problem is not voter fraud, it is voter apathy, shitty wimpy news media, shiftless bankers, and special interest money.

For Christ's sake stop barking up this tree
Click to expand...


OK, but only if people stop trotting out the bullshit about how tons of people will be disenfranchised because they can't get an ID. It's a stupid argument on both sides. I do not understand how any adult in this country can function today without some form of photo identification. You need it for seemingly anything. Hell, you likely need it to apply for government aid. If you are so poor that you can't afford to get transportation to the DMV, then you are likely already on government subsistence of some kind and my position is the government might as well go ahead and kick in the extra few dollars to provide you with what I consider to be a basic and necessary tool to use in your everyday life.
 
Liquid Karma said:
OK, but only if people stop trotting out the bullshit about how tons of people will be disenfranchised because they can't get an ID. It's a stupid argument on both sides. I do not understand how any adult in this country can function today without some form of photo identification. You need it for seemingly anything. Hell, you likely need it to apply for government aid. If you are so poor that you can't afford to get transportation to the DMV, then you are likely already on government subsistence of some kind and my position is the government might as well go ahead and kick in the extra few dollars to provide you with what I consider to be a basic and necessary tool to use in your everyday life.
Click to expand...

Right. We've got a lot bigger problems if there are a statistically significant number of people who lack the ability to get an identification card for free. If voting is an insurmountable problem, then how do you get through life?
 
jhmd2000 said:
Right. We've got a lot bigger problems if there are a statistically significant number of people who lack the ability to get an identification card for free. If voting is an insurmountable problem, then how do you get through life?
Click to expand...

Voting is not the insurmountable problem. Number of voting sites open on Election Day >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Number of DMV offices with reasonable hours, especially in rural areas
 
Milhouse said:
actually a better approach would be for republicans to come with ideas instead of saying "it is the other guy's fault."

what are the republican ideas?
Click to expand...

What gets measured gets done. Start measuring the performance of public schools by setting standards of performance and then grading management accordingly (good and bad). What is the answer of people who vehemently oppose testing for grade level performance when--surprise---our schools fall behind the rest of the world on test scores? Should we really be surprised?

The people who defend the status quo in our failing public schools and oppose reform (testing, accountability standards, non-traditional approaches like charter schools, etc.) aren't helping their so-called constituents. Instead, we get the same old tired, broken arguments about funding (meanwhile, we're getting housed on math tests by countries who spend fractions of our education dollars).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top