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PA Voter ID law ruled unconstitutional

Voting is not the insurmountable problem. Number of voting sites open on Election Day >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Number of DMV offices with reasonable hours, especially in rural areas

There are over 70 counties in TX that don't have DMV offices. The city of Elizabeth, NJ (a big city) had its DMV shutdown by Christie. This is the story many places in the country.

It's amazing some cannot be honest enough to admit the true purpose of the voter ID laws. anyone who dances around trying to justify them is intentionally keeping millions of voters from exercising their constitutional rights.

This is actually an expanded version of Jim Crow in the voting arena.
 
End of course testing, etc is the status quo in public education.
 
End of course testing, etc is the status quo in public education.

How are those results used? How many principals do you know who have been promoted based on improvements in those tests? Re-assigned when they failed to improve/maintain?
 
the "standards" in EOGs is feel good silliness that teaches nothing. it's like the SAT
 
How are those results used? How many principals do you know who have been promoted based on improvements in those tests? Re-assigned when they failed to improve/maintain?

That happens all the time. I personally know principals in my area who were bumped up to administrative positions due to their performance.

I just had a discussion yesterday with a school administrator at my church about how far fewer social studies teaching jobs are open partly because there are no state standardized tests for social studies so those teachers don't get forced out due to test results.

You're arguing in favor of policies and practices that are pretty common and have been in place for decades in some places and part of national policy for over a decade. That's the status quo.

Charters schools are far from a universal solution by the way.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/01/12/charter-failure.html
[h=1]Columbus has 17 charter school failures in one year[/h] [h=2]Schools closing at alarming rate, costing taxpayers and disrupting the lives of hundreds of students[/h]


At the beginning of 2013, one long-struggling charter school closed. Over the summer, five more did. And in the fall, 11 more Columbus charters closed their doors, most of them brand new.


That’s 17 charter schools in Columbus closed in one year, which records show is unprecedented.


“It shows the power of a couple of players with standards that are not up to par really affecting an overall market,” said Chad Aldis, a vice president at the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, which sponsors 10 charter schools in Ohio, some in Columbus.


Nine of the 17 schools that closed in 2013 lasted only a few months this past fall. When they closed, more than 250 students had to find new schools. The state spent more than $1.6 million in taxpayer money to keep the nine schools open only from August through October or November.


But while 2013 was unusual, closings are not rare. A Dispatch analysis of state data found that 29 percent of Ohio’s charter schools have shut, dating to 1997 when the publicly funded but often privately run schools became legal in Ohio. Nearly 400 currently are operating, about 75 of them in Columbus.
 
What gets measured gets done. Start measuring the performance of public schools by setting standards of performance and then grading management accordingly (good and bad). What is the answer of people who vehemently oppose testing for grade level performance when--surprise---our schools fall behind the rest of the world on test scores? Should we really be surprised?

The people who defend the status quo in our failing public schools and oppose reform (testing, accountability standards, non-traditional approaches like charter schools, etc.) aren't helping their so-called constituents. Instead, we get the same old tired, broken arguments about funding (meanwhile, we're getting housed on math tests by countries who spend fractions of our education dollars).

What a crock of elephant poop!

Kid's aren't like sprockets down at the local plant where you can do quality control because each item is the same.
 
Well said, Faithful.
 
It doesn't matter if we use IDs to do everything. That's not a valid argument to require it for voting. Stop arguing that we use IDs for other shit, it is a stupid position.

Prove that there is a real problem with the status quo that only IDs can fix, and you have something. No one has done that because there is no real problem. The biggest problem is not voter fraud, it is voter apathy, shitty wimpy news media, shiftless bankers, and special interest money.

For Christ's sake stop barking up this tree

I didn't post the list of things you need an ID for as an argument for requiring one for voting. I posted it as a kind of "how the hell can someone not already have a photo ID anyway?"
 
I didn't post the list of things you need an ID for as an argument for requiring one for voting. I posted it as a kind of "how the hell can someone not already have a photo ID anyway?"

Right, the primary deflection of which requires accusing someone else of focusing on a made-up problem.
 
Next we need to strike down these ridiculous laws that require an ID to buy alcohol, buy cigarettes, get on an airplane, open a bank account, apply for welfare, apply for a job, rent a house, apply for a mortgage, get married, apply for a hunting licenses, and buy a gun. All of those ID requirements clearly are targeted at minorities as well.

You don't need an ID to get on an airplane, apply for a job, rent a house, or get married. Those are the ones I know for sure. Probably a few of the other ones too.

Just because they ask for your ID doesn't mean it's required. It just makes things go faster.
 
OK, but only if people stop trotting out the bullshit about how tons of people will be disenfranchised because they can't get an ID. It's a stupid argument on both sides. I do not understand how any adult in this country can function today without some form of photo identification. You need it for seemingly anything. Hell, you likely need it to apply for government aid. If you are so poor that you can't afford to get transportation to the DMV, then you are likely already on government subsistence of some kind and my position is the government might as well go ahead and kick in the extra few dollars to provide you with what I consider to be a basic and necessary tool to use in your everyday life.

what if it is lost on the last morning you can vote? destroyed in a fire? stolen? then you can't vote. You've been disenfranchised for not carrying a piece of plastic. Its bullshit, there is no problem now.
 
I didn't post the list of things you need an ID for as an argument for requiring one for voting. I posted it as a kind of "how the hell can someone not already have a photo ID anyway?"

Apparently, at least 300,000 registered Pennsylvanian voters do not have a compliant ID, and that's the low-end estimate offered by the expert defending the law in the case. The opponents presented credible evidence that it could be more than 1,000,000.

Voter ID laws would be fine if the states in question actually made it possible for elderly, disabled, and poor people who don't own cars to get the IDs in question. Unfortunately, as Pennsylvania found out, doing so is quite difficult and expensive, and they haven't managed it yet despite trying for 2 years. Which I think brings the conversation full circle to the question of why exactly is it necessary to spend millions of dollars in taxpayer money to do fix something that was not broken in the first place?
 
Apparently, at least 300,000 registered Pennsylvanian voters do not have a compliant ID, and that's the low-end estimate offered by the expert defending the law in the case. The opponents presented credible evidence that it could be more than 1,000,000.

Voter ID laws would be fine if the states in question actually made it possible for elderly, disabled, and poor people who don't own cars to get the IDs in question. Unfortunately, as Pennsylvania found out, doing so is quite difficult and expensive, and they haven't managed it yet despite trying for 2 years. Which I think brings the conversation full circle to the question of why exactly is it necessary to spend millions of dollars in taxpayer money to do fix something that was not broken in the first place?

Small government?
 
You don't need an ID to get on an airplane, apply for a job, rent a house, or get married. Those are the ones I know for sure. Probably a few of the other ones too.

Just because they ask for your ID doesn't mean it's required. It just makes things go faster.

When was the last time you flew?
 
Dude the crusade for voter ID is the most bizarre thing happening in the political debate right now. It's a solution in search of a problem. You sound like crazy people.
 
Dude the crusade for voter ID is the most bizarre thing happening in the political debate right now. It's a solution in search of a problem. You sound like crazy people.

Not true. It's just that the proponents of the crusade persistently decline to identify the real problem they're trying to solve, because "there's too many blacks and poors voting" doesn't sound good on TV.
 
More regulations for voters (minorities), less regulation for Wall Street (rich white guys). Interesting
 
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