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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

i don't think anyone actually cares about having a legitimate tour to compete against the PGA - the issue is that money and backers of this tour alternative are (as Phil said himself) "scary mother @#@($*s to get involved with"
 
When has being on the wrong side of an issue ever stopped the president of the Tommy Elrod fan club?
 
I get the issues with being involved with the Saudis…. I just don’t want to hear about it from the Tour. They have a PGA Tour China and the European Tour has held events there. Also, they have allowed players to play in the Saudi International. The PGA tour cares as much about the moral element of this as the players accepting the money. They’re not mad at players for taking Saudi money. They’re jealous.
 
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i don't think anyone actually cares about having a legitimate tour to compete against the PGA - the issue is that money and backers of this tour alternative are (as Phil said himself) "scary mother @#@($*s to get involved with"

People would surely care if any one else from another country started a league to compete with an American professional sport league. The Saudi angle is just another angle. But if Japanese investors started an alternative baseball league in the US, it would still be hella controversial. Probably even moreso.
 
We aren't comparing golf majors to the LIV. The majors are bigger obviously. And the LIV players will play in them and win them in the future, heck maybe next week or at St. Andrews.

But do I think the LIV events could be every bit as big as the Quad Cities, the Canadian, and the Wyndham? Of course they have a real shot to do that.

So I am arguing with your premise here.

LOL. the new argument is that these tournaments will be as big as the John Deere Classic and the GGO. That's not moving the goalposts, that's chopping them down and building a fire out of them.
 
LOL. the new argument is that these tournaments will be as big as the John Deere Classic and the GGO. That's not moving the goalposts, that's chopping them down and building a fire out of them.

No, that’s the same argument as before. The majors don’t belong to the PGA Tour. All the best players are in those. LIV isn’t trying to compete against those. They want their players to play and the majors, understandably, want the best players in the world. The majors are in to promoting golf.

The PGA Tour, meanwhile, isn’t protecting golf or it would welcome the best players too. Instead, it is defending its pocket book. That’s certainly fine but don’t pretend it’s some sort of humanitarian issue. We have horrible school shootings in our country. It would be called racist if Brazil companies stopped doing business with the entire US as a result, and understandably so.

Will the LIV stack up with the middle set of PGA Tour events? It appears to me they are already close to that as looking at the Canadian Open field shows. If they add 5 more big names, and they will, LIV will be ahead of PGA Tour events.
 
No, that’s the same argument as before. The majors don’t belong to the PGA Tour. All the best players are in those. LIV isn’t trying to compete against those. They want their players to play and the majors, understandably, want the best players in the world. The majors are in to promoting golf.

The PGA Tour, meanwhile, isn’t protecting golf or it would welcome the best players too. Instead, it is defending its pocket book. That’s certainly fine but don’t pretend it’s some sort of humanitarian issue. We have horrible school shootings in our country. It would be called racist if Brazil companies stopped doing business with the entire US as a result, and understandably so.

Will the LIV stack up with the middle set of PGA Tour events? It appears to me they are already close to that as looking at the Canadian Open field shows. If they add 5 more big names, and they will, LIV will be ahead of PGA Tour events.

Christ, you’re stupider than I give you credit for.
 
Where can I order some of the sweet LIV team gear?
 
No, that’s the same argument as before. The majors don’t belong to the PGA Tour. All the best players are in those. LIV isn’t trying to compete against those. They want their players to play and the majors, understandably, want the best players in the world. The majors are in to promoting golf.

The PGA Tour, meanwhile, isn’t protecting golf or it would welcome the best players too. Instead, it is defending its pocket book. That’s certainly fine but don’t pretend it’s some sort of humanitarian issue. We have horrible school shootings in our country. It would be called racist if Brazil companies stopped doing business with the entire US as a result, and understandably so.

Will the LIV stack up with the middle set of PGA Tour events? It appears to me they are already close to that as looking at the Canadian Open field shows. If they add 5 more big names, and they will, LIV will be ahead of PGA Tour events.

actually, the PGA Tour's issue is it treats the 125th player the same as a top-5 player.

And I don't really understand what "or it would welcome the best players too" means. I haven't seen evidence that the PGA Tour is not welcoming the best players. Their by-laws are clear that members cannot play rival tours, which makes sense because they rely on player's in their events to sell to sponsors and to tv which in turn brings in big purses.
 
Serious question here………why are the Saudis spending so much money on a new golf tour, as opposed to a plethora of other investments they could pursue? What’s their objective? Golf isn’t a big sport in Saudi Arabia. I doubt that 1% of the population plays.
One thought - they view golf as a sport played by civilized countries and by having their own tour, they can improve on their poor humanitarian reputation. On paper, this tour is a huge money loser now, and likely for many years. So why do it?
 
Serious question here………why are the Saudis spending so much money on a new golf tour, as opposed to a plethora of other investments they could pursue? What’s their objective? Golf isn’t a big sport in Saudi Arabia. I doubt that 1% of the population plays.
One thought - they view golf as a sport played by civilized countries and by having their own tour, they can improve on their poor humanitarian reputation. On paper, this tour is a huge money loser now, and likely for many years. So why do it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportswashing
 
What a goal to aspire to match the greatness of the John Deere Classic!

I see that Bryson and Reed have signed on now too. I'm not sure anything could dissuade other PGA Tour players more from jumping ship than the prospect of playing with those two!
 
Yeah. To be clear, I can root for the LIV tour to fail because I think a racist/sexist/homophobic/murdering government built on oppression is throwing money at celebrities to curry favor with the West so they can keep on doing horrible things. And at the same time understand that when James Piot got a look at how hard it is to compete on tour, and how far he is from even being able to sniff a tour card, that getting millions to simply end up on Dustin Johnson's team a few times in joke events is tough to pass up. Which is exactly why I applaud Alex for rejecting the opportunity.

Hell, I can even recognize that the impact of the LIV tour on the PGA Tour is partially positive. It will pressure them to improve payouts, give more paths to earning money, and potentially better and more creative experiences for viewers.

But there's a line, obviously. If a country leveraged slavery to fund a rival football league to the NFL, paid every starter on current NFL teams $500M each to play 10 games in the middle of the NFL's season - it wouldn't get off the ground. It wouldn't matter if they put go-pro's and mic's on every player. There wouldn't be any ends justifying the means arguments. There's no effort to make a profit or even break even here. The entire endeavor is a nefarious one, despite all the bullshit about "growing the game" or "expanding the reach of golf." Nobody cares about any of that at a level that even approaches the weight of the actual money.

I agree with you 100%. The fact that LIV is paying a nobody this much money is laughable. Great deal for him because he might not have made a cent otherwise. Still think this is going to be a clown show, primarily because Norman is at the helm.
 
Serious question here………why are the Saudis spending so much money on a new golf tour, as opposed to a plethora of other investments they could pursue? What’s their objective? Golf isn’t a big sport in Saudi Arabia. I doubt that 1% of the population plays.
One thought - they view golf as a sport played by civilized countries and by having their own tour, they can improve on their poor humanitarian reputation. On paper, this tour is a huge money loser now, and likely for many years. So why do it?

1) Sports washing. Golf isn’t the main objective here, it’s a means to an end.
a. The sponsorships that are associated with golfers are the massive fortune 500 companies that Saudi Arabia wants to do business with out in the open. This is the easiest way for American companies to start taking boatloads of Saudi cash
2) Easiest league to disrupt. The product the PGA tour puts out on a weekly basis is objectively shit for the fans. They've already started buying major soccer clubs, why not buy a whole league?
 
Do they have to redo the draft now that Bryson and Reed joined?

They draft is supposed to be every event, however it turns out that two of the teams are pre-formed (the English and South African squads) for at least 3 events.
 
1) Sports washing. Golf isn’t the main objective here, it’s a means to an end.
a. The sponsorships that are associated with golfers are the massive fortune 500 companies that Saudi Arabia wants to do business with out in the open. This is the easiest way for American companies to start taking boatloads of Saudi cash
2) Easiest league to disrupt. The product the PGA tour puts out on a weekly basis is objectively shit for the fans. They've already started buying major soccer clubs, why not buy a whole league?

They've been taking over F1 too.
 
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