WakeandBake
Well-known member
Well, hip Junebug to that, because he couldn't understand my use of the word hypocritical.
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Well, hip Junebug to that, because he couldn't understand my use of the word hypocritical.
WakeandBake
Well-known member
Sure, no argument there. But the difference between you and me on this is that I am tolerant of homosexuals. I do not classify it as a "fault" as you just did. I am tolerant of all people and their "traits" as long as they aren't harming or exploiting others. So you will typically hear me condemn the greedy, the intolerant, warmongers, violent criminals, oppressors, etc.
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
I agree with Bake on the capitalism issue. If you're going by the teachings of Jesus, that's pretty incompatible with capitalism. They're pretty much 180 out.
19deac92
You are a meathead.
Are you sure? Have you considered this parable?:
Matthew 25:14-30
The Parable of the Bags of Gold
14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’
21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’
23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
****
I really believe that this parable applies not necessarily to money, but to all of the gifts (indeed, "talents") we are blessed with in life. We are to do the best with what we are given, whether we are fortunate enough to be the person who starts out with five talents or instead the person who only begins with one.
Still, I don't see where the New Testament necessarily condemns capitalism. Instead, I believe that we are to do the best with what we have and/or are entrusted with, while loving our neighbor as ourself.
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PhDeac
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That last bit isn't what capitalism is.
Read that passage in context and it's clear Jesus is talking about being ready for the Second Coming.
Some verses from Matthew 24:
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:3, 36, 42, 45-51 NIV)
Then he tells the parable of the 10 virgins right before the parable of the talents. This is the end of the 10 virgins and the beginning of the talents:
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
“Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. (Matthew 25:13, 14 NIV)
Note the use of "again" meaning Jesus is continuing the same theme from chapter 24.
Then he continues right after the parable of the talents saying when the Master comes we will be judged by how we treat the poor:
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:31-46 NIV)
Read that passage in context and it's clear Jesus is talking about being ready for the Second Coming.
Some verses from Matthew 24:
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:3, 36, 42, 45-51 NIV)
Then he tells the parable of the 10 virgins right before the parable of the talents. This is the end of the 10 virgins and the beginning of the talents:
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
“Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. (Matthew 25:13, 14 NIV)
Note the use of "again" meaning Jesus is continuing the same theme from chapter 24.
Then he continues right after the parable of the talents saying when the Master comes we will be judged by how we treat the poor:
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:31-46 NIV)
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At the heart of that parable is there is a master with many slaves. Yes he may share with some, but he is still their master and can change his mind.
WakeandBake
Well-known member
To the Christians on this thread: If your child came to you and announced he or she was gay, would you consider your child "faulty" or "flawed?"
Shorty
Boomer Boy
To the extent that I subscribe to a particular religion, I am a Christian. (Spirituality and Christianity are not mutually inclusive to me.) I would absolutely not consider a child of mine to be faulty or flawed if he/she announced he/she was gay.
BarcaDeac
Well-known member
my wife's godmother is super crazy Christian (the no Halloween type) and theorizes that gay people are the products of abusive parents. my youngest sister is gay, so clearly my parents by the time they got to the third kid, just said "fuck it" and started wailing on her whenever she screwed up.
WakeandBake
Well-known member
Wrangor?
Not an ounce more so than if they were straight.
Junebug
Well-known member
I would consider him or her to be a sinner.
Shorty
Boomer Boy
Well, we're all sinners, So since you would expect him/her to be tolerant of your sins, I guess you would be tolerant of his/hers as well.
Junebug
Well-known member
I don't think sin is quantitative.
But to cut to the chase, I think homosexual behavior is sinful.
Junebug
Well-known member
I don't expect people to be tolerant of my sins.
Shorty
Boomer Boy
Fair enough regarding your expectation of other people. But would you be tolerant of what you believe to be your son or daughter's sin of homosexuality?
Junebug
Well-known member
I would not. I would still love them, but I would not accept their lifestyle choice as an acceptable form of behavior. No more or no less than I would any other sin.