The devil never sleeps, this time it's Nice, France

[vadimivich]

The Orlando shooter was born in New York, to parents from Afghanistan. I believe the Chattanooga shooter was also second generation but I could be wrong about that one. In Europe there have been many instances of second generation terrorists but I'm not your servant- do your own homework and look them up. Also, what part of "I didn't say otherwise" did you not understand? I'm not saying we should start deporting children who are American citizens. But I'm saying we should consider dramatically reducing the immigration from these countries.

In the 1920s there were a huge number of terrorist attacks in the US by immigrants and the children of immigrants. They bombed Wall Street, judges and congressmens offices and a bunch of other locations. The vast majority of them were Italians or the children of Italian immigrants, anarchists and communists. In 1919 alone in one event there was more than 20 bombs placed or mailed in terrorist attackes. That was less than 100 years ago, but it's strange people have forgotten it already.

Being an immigrant is fucking tough, and the children of immigrants (especially those that are marginalized due to race or religion like Italians were in the US) often grow up struggling to find their feet between two worlds and some resort to very violent crime. This isn't a new phenomenom or a rare one, and it's not unique to Islam.

My wife is Sicilian American. And I'm damn glad that they didn't deport anyone who was Catholic (remember, 100 years that was far worse than being a muslim), had swarthy skin, couldn't speak English or was from Italy just because a small portion of the population was turning to anarchist, terrorist violence. Those things were all proposed, but thankfully not acted on. And our country is a better place for having people like my wife and her family in it.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

It doesn't sound like he was particularly, outside of being angry at his life. I'm sure we'll find out more, but if he has any true ties to any organized terrorist organization I'll be surprised based on the early reports.

So he turns out to be a lone wolf. It won't change the fact he was inspired by his religious beliefs. I mean, of course there's a chance he wasn't, but given Hollande said "France is under threat from Islamic terrorism" in the wake of the attack, when French authorities are notorious for often trying to downplay links to Islam after these sorts of attacks, I'll be very surprised if his religion didn't come into play.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

So he turns out to be a lone wolf. It won't change the fact he was inspired by his religious beliefs. I mean, of course there's a chance he wasn't, but given Hollande said "France is under threat from Islamic terrorism" in the wake of the attack, when French authorities are notorious for often trying to downplay links to Islam after these sorts of attacks, I'll be very surprised if his religion didn't come into play.

Early reports are he was not particularly religious, which is what Vad just said. Of course it may turn out he was recently radicalized but there's no evidence to support that as of right now I don't believe.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

In the 1920s there were a huge number of terrorist attacks in the US by immigrants and the children of immigrants. They bombed Wall Street, judges and congressmens offices and a bunch of other locations. The vast majority of them were Italians or the children of Italian immigrants, anarchists and communists. In 1919 alone in one event there was more than 20 bombs placed or mailed in terrorist attackes. That was less than 100 years ago, but it's strange people have forgotten it already.

Being an immigrant is fucking tough, and the children of immigrants (especially those that are marginalized due to race or religion like Italians were in the US) often grow up struggling to find their feet between two worlds and some resort to very violent crime. This isn't a new phenomenom or a rare one, and it's not unique to Islam.

My wife is Sicilian American. And I'm damn glad that they didn't deport anyone who was Catholic (remember, 100 years that was far worse than being a muslim), had swarthy skin, couldn't speak English or was from Italy just because a small portion of the population was turning to anarchist, terrorist violence. Those things were all proposed, but thankfully not acted on. And our country is a better place for having people like my wife and her family in it.

I'm very familiar with the anarchist attacks and also the fact anarchists were barred from entering the US, something which is still on the books even if it's not enforced. Having said that, I think the "threat" posed by anarchists was of a very different nature compared to what we're seeing from Islamic terrorists. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Any update on the Afghanistan research?

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

Early reports are he was not particularly religious, which is what Vad just said. Of course it may turn out he was recently radicalized but there's no evidence to support that as of right now I don't believe.

So why would Hollande say France is under the threat of Islamic terrorism in the wake of the attack? You really want to argue his religious beliefs likely had nothing to do with it? Okay. We'll see.

 

[vadimivich]

I'm very familiar with the anarchist attacks and also the fact anarchists were barred from entering the US, something which is still on the books even if it's not enforced. Having said that, I think the "threat" posed by anarchists was of a very different nature compared to what we're seeing from Islamic terrorists. You're comparing apples to oranges.

They were directly targeting organs of the US government and attempting to overthrow it (at a time where the world was in the throes of turmoil between far left and far right). That's a far greater threat, imo.

 

[deacvision7]

I'm very familiar with the anarchist attacks and also the fact anarchists were barred from entering the US, something which is still on the books even if it's not enforced. Having said that, I think the "threat" posed by anarchists was of a very different nature compared to what we're seeing from Islamic terrorists. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Because it makes it easier to extend the State of Emergency for another 3 months?

 

[Wakeforest22890]

So why would Hollande say France is under the threat of Islamic terrorism in the wake of the attack? You really want to argue his religious beliefs likely had nothing to do with it? Okay. We'll see.

I'm not arguing anything, I'm just echoing what early reports have turned out.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

Do a little homework yourself on the geo-political climate of Afghanistan in the 1980's and then we can talk about the Orlando shooter and how it may or may not fit into your theories on immigration.

Numbers, are you even old to remember the Russians fighting in Afghanistan and American/ISI support for the Taliban? Were you even alive then? But you're somehow an expert on that conflict? And that justifies allowing his crazy father to immigrate here? Okay. Please share your wisdom on Afghanistan in the 80s. I'm completely unfamiliar with what happened.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

I'm not arguing anything, I'm just echoing what early reports have turned out.

I'm sure the French president made mention of Islamic terrorism in his speech because it was completely irrelevant to what just happened.

 

[jhmd2000]

I don't think people are generally in denial about the threat "we" face, I think people disagree on how to address the issue. If you want to shut down the American borders to shut down the small number of terrorist attacks that occur domestically due to immigrants, then that's your prerogative. I don't think disagreeing that this is a practical or helpful solution means the "pro-immigration left" is in "denial."

Some are in specific denial, to wit:

'Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.' - HRC

As the caption from the Daily Mail recounted, "IT'S NOT THE MUSLIMS: Hillary Clinton staked her presidential campaign Thursday on the curious claim that 'radical jihadism' is not a byproduct of Islam."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ism-insists-Muslims-whatsoever-terrorism.html

 

[jhmd2000]

So why would Hollande say France is under the threat of Islamic terrorism in the wake of the attack? You really want to argue his religious beliefs likely had nothing to do with it? Okay. We'll see.

Silly Frog doesn't know you're supposed to #waitforthefactstocomein.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Numbers, are you even old to remember the Russians fighting in Afghanistan and American/ISI support for the Taliban? Were you even alive then? But you're somehow an expert on that conflict? And that justifies allowing his crazy father to immigrate here? Okay. Please share your wisdom on Afghanistan in the 80s. I'm completely unfamiliar with what happened.

Well I'm particularly interested in the nexus between (and clairvoyance required) immigration policies for specific nations in the 1980's and resulting terrorist attacks by children of these immigrants thirty years later.

 

[RJKarl]

Using Bob,jr's logic, living Civil War historians wouldn't be believable as they weren't alive during the Civil War.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

Well I'm particularly interested in the nexus between (and clairvoyance required) immigration policies for specific nations in the 1980's and resulting terrorist attacks by children of these immigrants thirty years later.

I suspect it might also come as a surprise to you that Muslims carry out Muslim terrorism.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I suspect it might also come as a surprise to you that Muslims carry out Muslim terrorism.

So the United States who was supporting the Mujahideen was supposed to prevent Afghanis from entering America in the 1980's because there may be future terrorist attacks in the name of Islam?

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

So the United States who was supporting the Mujahideen was supposed to prevent Afghanis from entering America in the 1980's because there may be future terrorist attacks in the name of Islam?

That doesn't make any sense.

What? You think every Afghani that wanted to immigrate shpuld have been allowed to because the US took a side in a cold war conflict? Most Afghanis opposed the Communists and their Soviet backers. Do I think the US fucked up? Of course. I thought so at the time. I remember watching a CNN documentary at the time (back when CNN had at least some interest in serious news coverage) and quickly understood they were gonna turn those weapons on us once they got rid of the Soviets. But not sure why you think that conflict entitled his father to immigrate here. Would I have rathered we never got involved? Of course. Lots of things could have been done differently.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

America was not going to impose stringent immigration restrictions on a nation around the same time that they were assisting with weapons to oppose Soviet troops. Again, it makes absolutely no sense at all.

If you want to argue that in the moment we shouldn't allow immigrants from certain nations because of the terrorist ties at the present time, that's one thing. If you want to argue that we shouldn't allow immigrants in from certain nations who have ties to terror or other groups with poor intentions now because in thirty years their kid might become radicalized, I think that's pretty dense. If you were actually trying to prevent children of immigrants from becoming radicalized and using country of origin for the parents as a proxy, you would need to be able to tell the future.