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"The Tournament: A History of ACC Men’s Basketball" Premieres Feb. 7 on ACC Network

Deaconblue said:
That was the year (1973) when Thompson/Burleson et al were ineligible. The Maryland /NC State ACC Tournament final was a formality. Maryland got the only ACC bid to the NCAA Tournament, even though they lost a close game to NC State.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but did not Wake play Maryland in the semis, and if we had won we would have gone to the NCAA tourney.

The other semifinal had two teams who were both on probation (State and Duke I think) for recruiting Thompson.
 
Deaconblue said:
Another bad call that stoked the Wake hatred of u*NC was the blocking foul that should have been a charge in the 1957 ACC Tournament semi. Wake had a one point lead with a few seconds left. Lenny Rosenbluth scored on what looked like a charge to most observers. However, the ref called it a blocking foul on Wake. Rosenbluth made the and 1 and u*NC-CH went on to win the ACC Tournament, Rosenbluth got the scoring record and ***u*NC-CH *** got their first NCAA Title. If the ref had made the call of "charge," negating the basket, Wake would have been shooting two free throws (rule at the time) to ice the win. u*NC-CH would have been out of luck. No NCAA Tournament.

Edited to fix. It was before Dean.
***u*NC-CH***
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They beat Wilt Chamberlin to win the title.
 
bluefish said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did not Wake play Maryland in the semis, and if we had won we would have gone to the NCAA tourney.

The other semifinal had two teams who were both on probation (State and Duke I think) for recruiting Thompson.
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Correct. That is why I said last place Wake was 8 points from an NCAA tournament berth in 1973. Wake-Maryland winner was getting the NCAA Tournament spot as ACC champion. And in those days, only the ACC Tournament winner went to the NCAA Tournament. Or, with teams on probation, the highest finishing team in the tournament.

Somehow the ACC Tournament was not "post-season" so the teams banned from post-season play were lowed to participate. The ACC Tournament win that year is one that NC State claims. However tainted it is.
 
dubs21 said:
They show video of this play in the doc. I had never seen footage before. Seemed like a decent call (not familiar with block/charge situation in 50s). I've seen us get screwed by the refs against UNC way more blatantly.
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I have read about that play. It was cool to actually see video of it. It was definitely a 50-50 call. Of course undefeated UNC is going to get the benefit of the doubt there.
 
Deaconblue said:
Correct. That is why I said last place Wake was 8 points from an NCAA tournament berth in 1973. Wake-Maryland winner was getting the NCAA Tournament spot as ACC champion. And in those days, only the ACC Tournament winner went to the NCAA Tournament. Or, with teams on probation, the highest finishing team in the tournament.

Somehow the ACC Tournament was not "post-season" so the teams banned from post-season play were lowed to participate. The ACC Tournament win that year is one that NC State claims. However tainted it is.
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Thanks. Sorry I didn't read the whole thread. As I recall State was undefeated that year, though I don't remember the exact record.
 
Complacent Deac said:
1973?

Never heard of this guy Tony Byers, but he averaged 18 pts. per game for us in the backcourt with Skip Brown (a guy we all have heard of).

Byers averaged 18 and then 15 and was done after 2 years?

Seems like a player.
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Byers transferred from Vencine? JC in Indiana as one of Tacy’s first recruits. He was a pure shooter, up there with The Skipper.
 
awaken said:
1989 Wake vs NC State 4 OT game is on ACCN now. State in their unitards with shorts over them. Wake up 77-74 with :08 left in regulation. Wake fouls on State's 3pt shot.
State rattles in 1st FT. :02 left btw. 2nd FT skims back of the rim and bounces oddly parallel to the baseline where SG Rodney Monroe (doesn't crash into the lane but toward baseline) catches and shoots in the air to tie it. On to the 1st OT....

Poor Bob Staak. Could not catch a break.
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I watched that replay last night. Staak wasn’t a bad coach at all. Tacy left him with nothing but Mugsy and he had a total rebuild without the portal. He had turned the corner with the signing of Chris King, a 4 star type of recruit from eastern NC. Wainwright was an excellent recruiter and assistant. That team with Ivy, King, Siler, Boyd, and McQueen was pretty talented. Siler could run and jump like Man Man built didn’t have his strength or ball skills. Kitley and Medlin had no offensive talent and were the weak link on that team. Odom inherited some talent and then was fortunate enough to add Rodney, Chill, and Tree Owens right away.
 
1976Deac said:
Scored either 30 or 40 his first game for Wake, iirc
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Schedules/records for those years are sketchy, but IIRC we opened that year with a 4-team tournament at home, maybe called the Twin Cities Classic, and he lit up some directional school the 30 or 40 points your referenced.
 
wfu22fan said:
Alley Hart and Billy Packer are great in telling stories about Bones. Alley has that eastern NC (Rocky Mount?) accent that I remember so fondly from many members the Kappa Sig fraternity back in the late 70’s.
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Kingston, he coached me in midget and junior ball. Great guy.
 
JOJESMA said:
Also, failed to give Bones credit for appearing in the ACC Finals for 5 consecutive years.
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Real tragedy for Wake fans was Wake played in the championship game something like 6 of the first 10 years of tourney, and then not again until 1979. There has got to be something to the coaching thing. I firmly believe there are coaches that know how to prepare a team for Tournament play.
 
wfu22fan said:
I watched that replay last night. Staak wasn’t a bad coach at all. Tacy left him with nothing but Mugsy and he had a total rebuild without the portal. He had turned the corner with the signing of Chris King, a 4 star type of recruit from eastern NC. Wainwright was an excellent recruiter and assistant. That team with Ivy, King, Siler, Boyd, and McQueen was pretty talented. Siler could run and jump like Man Man built didn’t have his strength or ball skills. Kitley and Medlin had no offensive talent and were the weak link on that team. Odom inherited some talent and then was fortunate enough to add Rodney, Chill, and Tree Owens right away.
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Muggsy was so damn good he was literally dribbling around in circles like Harlem Globetrotter and handing assists to guys like Kitley.
 
DownEastDeac said:
Schedules/records for those years are sketchy, but IIRC we opened that year with a 4-team tournament at home, maybe called the Twin Cities Classic, and he lit up some directional school the 30 or 40 points your referenced.
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He seems oddly overlooked in Deacon lore of guards. I mean 18 and 15 is not shabby.
 
wfu22fan said:
Byers transferred from Vencine? JC in Indiana as one of Tacy’s first recruits. He was a pure shooter, up there with The Skipper.
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Byers came from Vincennces (Indiana) Junior College. Now Vincennes University. That school was a Junior College basketball powerhouse back then.
 
Complacent Deac said:
Muggsy was so damn good he was literally dribbling around in circles like Harlem Globetrotter and handing assists to guys like Kitley.
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There aren't many players about whom you can say there has never been another like them. I really don't think there has ever been another player like Muggsy. Not saying he was the greatest ever - just totally unique. If he was anywhere in the area, opposing players would just refuse to dribble. Teams had to game plan for him - you couldn't steal the ball from him and you couldn't depend on your guards handling the ball around him. I can't imagine how many assists he might have had if we had had more talented inside guys to feed...

It feels now like I must have dreamed this but I swear it is true because I saw it - when Muggsy left a game against Duke at Cameron (I assume it was his senior year but don't know for sure, and we lost, of course) the Duke crowd gave him an ovation of respect because he had played so hard.
 
wfu22fan said:
I watched that replay last night. Staak wasn’t a bad coach at all. Tacy left him with nothing but Mugsy and he had a total rebuild without the portal. He had turned the corner with the signing of Chris King, a 4 star type of recruit from eastern NC. Wainwright was an excellent recruiter and assistant. That team with Ivy, King, Siler, Boyd, and McQueen was pretty talented. Siler could run and jump like Man Man built didn’t have his strength or ball skills. Kitley and Medlin had no offensive talent and were the weak link on that team. Odom inherited some talent and then was fortunate enough to add Rodney, Chill, and Tree Owens right away.
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Agreed. Wake started walk-on Alan Williams from the student body Staak's first year. Then what talent Staak had transferred or got injured (bad luck). Daric Keyes and Siler with season ending ACL's, I think. I remember watching players emerge from the gym after practice once, and there were as many on crutches as weren't.

In the years prior to this game above, Staak was twice up on State with seconds to play. First time, he did not intentionally foul the shooter and Vinny Del Negro drilled a 3 to either tie or win. State went on the win that game. Everyone second-guessed the decision to defend and let them shoot. Later same season, same scenario. We foul this time. State hit one, intentionally missed the second and got the put back. I don't think Staak ever won a 50/50 scenario. "If it weren't for bad luck, he'd have no luck at all."
 
1987: Mugsy's senior year, WF was horrible. He was great, but the rest of the team except for Mark Cline was super-young.

WF finished 2-12 in the ACC; WF's two regular season wins were over 0-14 MD, who essentially played all walk-ons and frosh after Bob Wade had committed a series of NCAA violations. Clemson finished 2nd in the ACC that year (10-4, and they were loaded: Horace Grant and Elden Campbell were as good an inside tandem as any team in the country). WF pulled a shocking upset Clemson in the ACC Tournament quarters, and faced #6 seed NC State in the semifinals.

The Pack had had a disappointing season. They were ranked to start the year, but stumbled in ACC play. Even so, State was a loaded team, Valvano could always recruit, and they had 4 future NBA players: Vinnie Del Negro, Chucky Brown, Charles Shackelford and Brian Howard; their leading scorer was Bennie Bolton. State had upset #14 Duke (Tommy Amaker, Quin Snyder, Danny Ferry) in the quarters, and WF played State in semis. Valvano and Staak were buddies, Valvano had recommended Staak for the WF job, but Valvano owned Staak head to head, including some incredibly excruciating losses. While it was fun that WF upset Clemson, everyone expected State to roll in the semifinals, as WF had only beaten depleted Maryland in the ACC regular season.

Behind an epic performance by Mugsy, WF led late in the game, and IIRC, WF should have won in regulation (perhaps, a controversial call by Lenny Wertz?), but the game went double OT, and State won.

UNC (loaded beyond belief with 7 future NBA players including Kenny Smith and JR Reid) had ripped through the ACC unbeaten 14-0, and were ranked #1 or #2 all year (fwiw, Jim Boehiem's Syracuse team, led by Derek Coleman, upset UNC to win the East regional, and Cuse lost the NCAA title to Bob Knight's Hoosiers on a last second shot by Keith Smart). UNC played NC State in the ACC tourney finals, and everyone expected State to lose big as UNC had routed the Pack in both of their regular season games. In true Valvano fashion, State upset UNC in the ACC final to win the conference title. The ACC had 8 teams that year, and only WF and MD failed to make the tournament. Think about how different that is than the ACC today.
 
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