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Transgender Athletes

Also, on a kinda related note, coming from a coach posting on a WFU sports board, I think we place a really unhealthy emphasis on athletic competition as a whole in this country.
 
sailordeac said:
Once more, inclusive in this case is inherently unfair, unfair to half of the population. Just ask them.
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I think you are wrong. I think you could design a system that is gender blind that is ultimately more fair to athletes than the current system. Short women are disadvantaged at running hurtles against tall women. Tall women are disadvantaged at gymnastics vs short women. You could create morphometric divisions that was gender blind or maybe partially gender blind that was fair to everybody that put them into competition against people with similar bodies and capabilities. All it would take is a little will power and creative thinking.
 
It’s a great troll but I think he actually believes it.
 
BiffTannen said:
Please stop.
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Ok, I’ll stop. I’ll leave you to the sacred unchangeable realm of women’s college swimming and track and weight lifting which didn’t exist 50 years ago but now is an essential part of the fabric of our society.
 
birdman said:
I’ve laid out an inclusive and fair way to handle non team sports like swimming, track and field, etc. (the sports where this issues repeatedly arises) repeatedly on this thread….set up competitions divisions not based on gender but on morphometrics like height, or weight, or lung capacity, or even testosterone in the blood. Have a read and get back to me on why that simply won’t work?
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Problem is there would have to be like 15 divisions before biological women could effectively compete in most sports.
 
The most famous transgender person in the history of the planet was included in the Men's Decathlon and won the Gold Medal and reputation as the "Best Athlete Alive". Who is being excluded by sex-based divisions in sports again?
 
I echo mako's thought earlier, that more than anything, this highlights the oversized place sports plays in our society.

In balancing inclusivity and fairness, I generally want to move toward inclusivity based on the relative stakes/harm involved, but here's my stab at a solution, and I'm not sure this really hits the mark.

For Trans athletes competing:

- If the athlete transitioned pre-puberty (where they either had blockers or underwent hormone therapy to experience male/female puberty), there are no restrictions on where they compete
- if the athlete transitions post-puberty, the athlete must undergo gender-affirming care (hormone therapy and other gender affirming treatments) for one year before being eligible to compete
- stipulation: if an athlete begins a level of competition (HS, college, etc.) in one sex division, they may not compete in the other division at that level.

I don't think this is perfect, but it's my best stab at inclusivity/fairness.

In all honesty, I think trans athletes should compete where they want because I care a whole lot more about their health and well-being than some misguided perception of the sanctity of sports in our culture, but I also realize we aren't ready for that yet.
 
mako1331 said:
Also, on a kinda related note, coming from a coach posting on a WFU sports board, I think we place a really unhealthy emphasis on athletic competition as a whole in this country.
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while this is no doubt true, it is also true, as I am sure you have seen first-hand, that 12 to 18-year-olds often need a healthy/worthwhile passion to pursue, lest they pursue a more destructive path, and sports can often serve as that worthwhile outlet

(in other words, if a kid wants to be great at a sport, he/she is slightly less likely to make a life-changing stupid decision)
 
thatguy2016 said:
while this is no doubt true, it is also true, as I am sure you have seen first-hand, that 12 to 18-year-olds often need a healthy/worthwhile passion to pursue, lest they pursue a more destructive path, and sports can often serve as that worthwhile outlet

(in other words, if a kid wants to be great at a sport, he/she is slightly less likely to make a life-changing stupid decision)
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I hear this - so why are we shutting off this positive route for trans youth, who may need it even more than others?
 
IamThunderbolt said:
I hear this - so why are we shutting off this positive route for trans youth, who may need it even more than others?
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I'm not in favor of shutting off this positive route for trans youth

your approach outlined above seems reasonable and would prevent the loophole that appears to have been exploited (regardless of intent) by the Penn swimmer
 
IamThunderbolt said:
I hear this - so why are we shutting off this positive route for trans youth, who may need it even more than others?
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I guess because competing against trans youth who are possibly thus at an advantage would likely discourage some youths from competing or continuing to pursue the sport, and therefore possibly make them more likely to take the destructive path.
 
if your kid is going to give up sports because they might have to play against a trans kid there's bigger fish to fry, mentally
 
IamThunderbolt said:
I echo mako's thought earlier, that more than anything, this highlights the oversized place sports plays in our society.

In balancing inclusivity and fairness, I generally want to move toward inclusivity based on the relative stakes/harm involved, but here's my stab at a solution, and I'm not sure this really hits the mark.

For Trans athletes competing:

- If the athlete transitioned pre-puberty (where they either had blockers or underwent hormone therapy to experience male/female puberty), there are no restrictions on where they compete
- if the athlete transitions post-puberty, the athlete must undergo gender-affirming care (hormone therapy and other gender affirming treatments) for one year before being eligible to compete
- stipulation: if an athlete begins a level of competition (HS, college, etc.) in one sex division, they may not compete in the other division at that level.

I don't think this is perfect, but it's my best stab at inclusivity/fairness.

In all honesty, I think trans athletes should compete where they want because I care a whole lot more about their health and well-being than some misguided perception of the sanctity of sports in our culture, but I also realize we aren't ready for that yet.
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I think this is exactly what the current NCAA rule is (or something quite similar) that has lead to this current "big controversy."
 
birdman said:
I think this is exactly what the current NCAA rule is (or something quite similar) that has lead to this current "big controversy."
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yeah - I think it is as well. I was just adding in the stipulation that if one has competed as a collegiate athlete in the sport in the men's or women's division, they couldn't do so in the other.

Honestly, I'm fine with the current NCAA rule and am all for normalizing trans athletes, as this case seems to be the exception rather than the norm (as evidenced by lbe's post earlier)
 
IamThunderbolt said:
yeah - I think it is as well. I was just adding in the stipulation that if one has competed as a collegiate athlete in the sport in the men's or women's division, they couldn't do so in the other.

Honestly, I'm fine with the current NCAA rule and am all for normalizing trans athletes, as this case seems to be the exception rather than the norm (as evidenced by lbe's post earlier)
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Right. That third stipulation is a fine addition.
 
lest we forget:

mocking-reporter.gif
 
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