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Urban Meyer Credibility Watch (NWT)

One thing to think about in the "non-prosecutions" is how much of a case does the DA have if the chief complainant and witness (the wife) refuses to cooperate and says she won't testify? It appears that may have happened. Seems like it would be pretty difficult for prosecution to win a conviction from a few medical reports and maybe some photos.

Board lawyers, feel free to weigh in on these thoughts. I'm not one.
 
I think Tigerswood is concerned about due process. Serious charges merit serious examination not knee jerk retorts and blanket condemnation. That is the trouble with high minded progs today..they tend to behave in a mob-like fashion and immediately castigate anyone whose response is not in lock step.

For all the supposed liberation of mind and spirit..to do so by excoriating and ostracizing others is not a very liberal response in the traditional understanding of the word.
 
DeacOnCapeCod said:
i got a semi-nutty conspiracy theory: tOSU administration is setting up meyer to take the fall. i agree that he is complicit but the meeting between defries/earl bruce and courtney i think was made on behalf of the university and not meyer. zach smith is the grandson of legendary earl bruce. meyer (or anyone at tOSU) would have alerted the administration of the domestic violence. someone high up arranged that meeting to silence her. all of the focus is on meyer and thats what tOSU wants: he gets canned and it looks like the problem is"solved"
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I am defending nobody in this affair..yet it does seem as if we have a much more nuanced story to find here
 
Lectro said:
I think Tigerswood is concerned about due process. Serious charges merit serious examination not knee jerk retorts and blanket condemnation. That is the trouble with high minded progs today..they tend to behave in a mob-like fashion and immediately castigate anyone whose response is not in lock step.

For all the supposed liberation of mind and spirit..to do so by excoriating and ostracizing others is not a very liberal response in the traditional understanding of the word.
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I'm going to ignore the generalization and explain why you're wrong here. The issue is Meyer knew there were allegations of domestic abuse and didn't do anything. All he had to do was report it to the school, and let them conduct an investigation. If he wanted to go a step further, he could (should) have fired the abuser himself. Further, there are a lot more than one-sided allegations. There are text messages from the abuser. There are pictures. There are text messages to Meyer's wife.

The issue isn't whether we should put the alleged abuser in jail without due process. That's fucking stupid. The issue is why didn't Meyer do his job and report it, at the bare minimum.
 
That's interesting. Project Veritas has a shaky history at best though.
 
tigerswood said:
Police/court system: no charges, not felonies.
General public: felonies.

How can educated people blame Urban Meyer over the police and legal system in this case? I don't get it, other than he's by far the most public figure involved.. Did he have some responsibility as a leader & human being to take action? Absolutely (assuming his wife told him). But it's the police & DA's job to make arrests, file restraining orders, file charges, and prosecute the incidents to makes sure the abuse doesn't happen again. Still eager to hear their side of things.
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Because, unfortunately, Urban Meyer generally has more power than either in these cases. He ran a penal colony at Florida and is doing the same at tOSU. He is in a unique position to reinforce positive behavior but does the exact opposite. He is supposed to be in a position of leadership of young men, and has shown himself to be nothing but a facilitator/enabler of criminal behavior. The guy is a POS.
 
Just not true re: penal colony at OSU. Again, I will admit I hated him at UF, but had really bought into him being a "changed man" based on everything I had read from him and others (reporters, coaches, friends, players, Tebow, etc) - this certainly mars that significantly and I'll have to develop a new opinion once the full story comes out (if it does).

However, OSU has had far fewer arrests under his leadership than pretty much every SEC program (including Florida, Bama, etc) during the same time span. He's also kicked a presumed starting RB (Brionte Dunn) off the team for allegations (I assumed proven true) of domestic violence. Also suspended starting RB Carlos Hyde for three games for assault charges, even though the woman dropped them and the case was closed in 2013. Stories below:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2013/07/30/ohio-state-carlos-hyde-assault-case-closed/2600221/
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2652812-brionte-dunn-dismissed-by-osu-latest-details-comments-and-reaction

What I don't understand is why he hitched his wagon to someone as toxic and apparently discgusting as Zach Smith, other than the fact he was the grandson of Earl Bruce. That seems like the only reason. The guy wasn't even a good WR coach - he was a good recruiter who did not develop talent. No OSU fans were even remotely sad Smith was fired, even from a football sense.
 
tigerswood said:
What I don't understand is why he hitched his wagon to someone as toxic and apparently discgusting as Zach Smith, other than the fact he was the grandson of Earl Bruce. That seems like the only reason. The guy wasn't even a good WR coach - he was a good recruiter who did not develop talent. No OSU fans were even remotely sad Smith was fired, even from a football sense.
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I think you nailed it here. He wanted some tie to the legacy of Earl Bruce. Smith was it.
 
Deaconblue said:
I think you nailed it here. He wanted some tie to the legacy of Earl Bruce. Smith was it.
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Again, I go back to Urban being the face of this scandal (because he is the only person who has publicly commented on it)....
Was Meyer blinded by his admiration of Earl Bruce that he looked pass the transgressions of Smith or did someone higher up at tOSU protect Smith?
 
I don't know what Meyer's relationship with Earl Bruce was all about, but Bruce went 9-3 basically every year at OSU and never won a Rose Bowl; he was no Woody Hayes (then again, he was followed by John Cooper, who went 2-10-1 vs. Michigan, so...)
 
DeacOnCapeCod said:
Again, I go back to Urban being the face of this scandal (because he is the only person who has publicly commented on it)....
Was Meyer blinded by his admiration of Earl Bruce that he looked pass the transgressions of Smith or did someone higher up at tOSU protect Smith?
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Or is Meyer just a shitty person?
 
wakelaw13 said:
I'm going to ignore the generalization and explain why you're wrong here. The issue is Meyer knew there were allegations of domestic abuse and didn't do anything. All he had to do was report it to the school, and let them conduct an investigation. If he wanted to go a step further, he could (should) have fired the abuser himself. Further, there are a lot more than one-sided allegations. There are text messages from the abuser. There are pictures. There are text messages to Meyer's wife.

The issue isn't whether we should put the alleged abuser in jail without due process. That's fucking stupid. The issue is why didn't Meyer do his job and report it, at the bare minimum.
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I’m not arguing with you..what I am saying is that we have more details and nuance to this story all of which needs exploration. Did Earle Bruce intervene and if he did what of his role did the University know?

There is a story here of a revered figure with a familial relationship with the accused and the accuser. I am sure that most of the people involved were trying to help the couple.

Was the intervention considered a satisfactory development by both spouses? Were they trying to stay together and avert public shame and embarrassment. The fact that she would not pursue charges doesn’t ring true - in this instance!- that she was afraid and reluctant. She called the cops 9 times. How is it that you can call the police 9 times without any action. Does this reflect the power of Ohio State with regards to local law enforcement? Maybe so. Were the claims backed by evidence or were they fueled by anger and resentment. I don’t know much but I do know that there is much more to this story.

So I won’t amuse you by falling in line with a narrative driven by haste..no more than I will approve if the entire situation has been a cya operation by Meyer. If that’s the case then he will pay with his livelihood.

Having seen James O’Keefe’s tape I am more inclined to view Meyer as a perpetrator of lies. But I will wait for the story to emerge concerning this particular set of circumstances. We are tried by law, not opinions developed from afar.
 
PhDeac said:
Because it's true.
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No he doesn’t. Just because he was smeared and you believed the smear. He has been performing a necessary function in a society where media organs have incestuous ties to government agencies.

I’d dare say you don’t a single thing about him except what you have been led to believe. As with most muckraking journalism from HL Mencken on has been the willingness to accept the establishment smear when they are displayed publicly without their clothes on..

You should try watching O’Keefe instead of nodding your head, PH
 
Lectro said:
I’m not arguing with you..what I am saying is that we have more details and nuance to this story all of which needs exploration. Did Earle Bruce intervene and if he did what of his role did the University know?

There is a story here of a revered figure with a familial relationship with the accused and the accuser. I am sure that most of the people involved were trying to help the couple.

Was the intervention considered a satisfactory development by both spouses? Were they trying to stay together and avert public shame and embarrassment. The fact that she would not pursue charges doesn’t ring true - in this instance!- that she was afraid and reluctant. She called the cops 9 times. How is it that you can call the police 9 times without any action. Does this reflect the power of Ohio State with regards to local law enforcement? Maybe so. Were the claims backed by evidence or were they fueled by anger and resentment. I don’t know much but I do know that there is much more to this story.

So I won’t amuse you by falling in line with a narrative driven by haste..no more than I will approve if the entire situation has been a cya operation by Meyer. If that’s the case then he will pay with his livelihood.

Having seen James O’Keefe’s tape I am more inclined to view Meyer as a perpetrator of lies. But I will wait for the story to emerge concerning this particular set of circumstances. We are tried by law, not opinions developed from afar.
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Lectro, I always thought you were just the sunshane brigader who thinks every recruit has the potential to be an All American and the Deacs will win 10 games a year, but this is right in line with how I feel and what I've said. I don't understand the need to immediately condemn someone in society these days based on allegations - allegations of which which McMurphy and Mrs. Smith both agree they have no proof. What's wrong with due process?
 
tigerswood said:
Lectro, I always thought you were just the sunshane brigader who thinks every recruit has the potential to be an All American and the Deacs will win 10 games a year, but this is right in line with how I feel and what I've said. I don't understand the need to immediately condemn someone in society these days based on allegations - allegations of which which McMurphy and Mrs. Smith both agree they have no proof. What's wrong with due process?
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Man. This is when you know you're in trouble.
 
Deaconblue said:
One thing to think about in the "non-prosecutions" is how much of a case does the DA have if the chief complainant and witness (the wife) refuses to cooperate and says she won't testify? It appears that may have happened. Seems like it would be pretty difficult for prosecution to win a conviction from a few medical reports and maybe some photos.

Board lawyers, feel free to weigh in on these thoughts. I'm not one.
Click to expand...

Shades of Greg Hardy?
If the complaining witness is prepared to say it was a case of mutual combat and will plead the 5th, even pictures won't be enough for most prosecutors.
 
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