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Wake at Clemson - Saturday 11/20 Game Time Speculation

jamesda3 said:
We as a fanbase need to learn to control ourselves. A so called fan was yapping that when needed better players and when Bothroyd’s mom said something that they are kids not professionals He proceeds in telling her to tell him to tackle better and we need to fire Hemphill. I get wanting to fire Hemphill but let’s not attack our kids especially in front of their parents.
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I would encourage you to slap anyone you see talking shit to a player's mom.
 
inspectah said:
I'm not sure we'll have a new DC next year. Sawvel was an outsider to this staff. Current guy is not and unlike in 2018, Clawson has not really been publicly critical of the D this season.
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"Our third down defense a week ago was great, but today it was awful."

" Defensively, we played poorly. That’s a team that’s been struggling on offense, and we gave up 541 yards. They had a good plan, but the amount of missed tackles we had just makes it tough"

He ain't happy.
 
To answer some shit from the injury notes ...

- Ellison looked to be hurt on the last touchdown against State; he was kind of limping to the sideline. Only noticed on re-watch. Also had some beneficial timing of walking into Clawson's Tuesday presser behind him and noticed he had a pretty large knee brace on.

- Jurgens' injury is of the "undisclosed" variety, and I assume there's enough inside Wake football knowledge to know what that means. It's the same injury that made him miss last year's UNC game.

- I was shocked Roberson was not only playing, but that he wasn't a decoy; I'd been told he was only going to be used in emergency situations. He was one of our two players we got for interviews and I asked him bluntly "when did you know you were going to play?" and he said Thursday ... which is extremely late in the process to have that solidified.

Speaking of slots, though, Ke'Shawn looked like he was moving at about 60% of his normal agility/speed.

- In my defense: Gavin Holmes was not out there with the corners until late in warm-ups. But ... I imagine he was getting situated with pads and his cast.

- Nasir, man ... it just seems like he'll never be completely healthy. Or if he is, it'll be fleeting. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Perhaps the most frustrating thing about this season is that the rivals we beat faired better against Clemson than we did. This performance was inline with the fact Clemson tends to beat down Wake worse than other teams annually.

I've got a pretty straightforward theory as to why.

Wake recruits tend to be in that low to mid 3* range with the occasional 4*. A few other ACC schools are in that range. Other ACC schools recruit in that mid to high 3* range with a few 4* in each class. Clemson recruits mostly 4* with several 5* recruits.

Wake can make up the talent gaps with most other ACC schools with good coaching, scheming, and experience. Other ACC schools can make up most of the gap with Clemson with good coaching, scheming, and experience. But the gap between Wake and Clemson is too big.


inspectah said:
I'm not sure we'll have a new DC next year. Sawvel was an outsider to this staff. Current guy is not and unlike in 2018, Clawson has not really been publicly critical of the D this season.
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Hemphill joined the staff in 2017 from Stonybrook. He came over after Sawvel took over as DC.
 
Last edited:
Tough loss. The defense got manhandled and the offense was one dimensional.

The running backs had 17 attempts for 73 yards. Sam had 14 rushing attempts for -37 yards. 7 sacks lost 34 yards, leaving Sam with 7 carries for -3 yards. Three of those carries were thru holes open for the RB but closed with Sam trailing. Sam needs to trust and use the RB's. They are much better gaining yardage on the ground than him. Trying to do too much.

CFP fantasy is over. Beating Clemson at Death Valley is over. Winning North Carolina is over. Top ten ranking is over. All that is left is a ten win regular season and an Atlantic division championship. Huge opportunity for a great season next weekend. Go 1-0 vs. BC and reach two goals.

Need to get the bad taste out of your mouth. Watch a tape of todays basketball game and smile.
 
BlackjackMc said:
Tough loss. The defense got manhandled and the offense was one dimensional.

The running backs had 17 attempts for 73 yards. Sam had 14 rushing attempts for -37 yards. 7 sacks lost 34 yards, leaving Sam with 7 carries for -3 yards. Three of those carries were thru holes open for the RB but closed with Sam trailing. Sam needs to trust and use the RB's. They are much better gaining yardage on the ground than him. Trying to do too much.

CFP fantasy is over. Beating Clemson at Death Valley is over. Winning North Carolina is over. Top ten ranking is over. All that is left is a ten win regular season and an Atlantic division championship. Huge opportunity for a great season next weekend. Go 1-0 vs. BC and reach two goals.

Need to get the bad taste out of your mouth. Watch a tape of todays basketball game and smile.
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I think you’re leaving out two other things that are still left to play for.
 
TheAbster said:
To me, it's obvious we have talent deficiencies. Somehow, that has to be resolved with recruiting. But, that's a bootstrap situation. It's not as easy as it sounds.
I definitely think schemes have something to do with it. But, I have become more convinced that it's 70% personnel and 30% coaching.
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To quote an unnamed (forgotten who) source: “It’s not the x’s and the o’s, it’s the Jimmies and the Joes.”
 
Deaconblue said:
Win the conference this season. Show recruits that they can play at Wake and compete for championships.
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Correct. Go Deacs! Our primary goal lays ahead. Stay the course.
Yesterday we lost sight of that hurt dog just trying to stay alive on the side of the road. We got attacked, bloodied and knocked down.

We will get up and we will keep moving down that road to our end goal.
 
PhDeac said:
Perhaps the most frustrating thing about this season is that the rivals we beat faired better against Clemson than we did. This performance was inline with the fact Clemson tends to beat down Wake worse than other teams annually.

I've got a pretty straightforward theory as to why.

Wake recruits tend to be in that low to mid 3* range with the occasional 4*. A few other ACC schools are in that range. Other ACC schools recruit in that mid to high 3* range with a few 4* in each class. Clemson recruits mostly 4* with several 5* recruits.

Wake can make up the talent gaps with most other ACC schools with good coaching, scheming, and experience. Other ACC schools can make up most of the gap with Clemson with good coaching, scheming, and experience. But the gap between Wake and Clemson is too big.




Hemphill joined the staff in 2017 from Stonybrook. He came over after Sawvel took over as DC.
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Agreed. Clawson has closed the gaps quite a bit. On the positive side, we scored 27 on a very good defense. That is tied for the most given up in regulation all year by Clemson's D. Unfortunately we turned it over 3 times and couldn't control the game since we couldn't run the ball. Can't do that with gap in talent and still win.

Yesterday was the most competitive we have looked in a while against Clemson and it still wasn't that close. Oh well.
 
PhDeac said:
Perhaps the most frustrating thing about this season is that the rivals we beat faired better against Clemson than we did. This performance was inline with the fact Clemson tends to beat down Wake worse than other teams annually.

I've got a pretty straightforward theory as to why.

Wake recruits tend to be in that low to mid 3* range with the occasional 4*. A few other ACC schools are in that range. Other ACC schools recruit in that mid to high 3* range with a few 4* in each class. Clemson recruits mostly 4* with several 5* recruits.

Wake can make up the talent gaps with most other ACC schools with good coaching, scheming, and experience. Other ACC schools can make up most of the gap with Clemson with good coaching, scheming, and experience. But the gap between Wake and Clemson is too big.




Hemphill joined the staff in 2017 from Stonybrook. He came over after Sawvel took over as DC.
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Don’t disagree with this but Cuse, LVille, and BC have similar talent to Wake and did much better than we did against them (even if they lost). Will give you that State and Pitt have better talent that we do and not a coincidence that those are 2 they lost. It also didn’t help we had to play them in Death Valley on Senior Day. FSU and Tarholes have close to talent of Clemson and we play both of them much better for whatever reason. I think Veneables is just a really good DC and our defense is not very good.
 
TheAbster said:
"Our third down defense a week ago was great, but today it was awful."

" Defensively, we played poorly. That’s a team that’s been struggling on offense, and we gave up 541 yards. They had a good plan, but the amount of missed tackles we had just makes it tough"

He ain't happy.
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He was much more vocal about it in 2018 and all but telegraphed there would be changes on that side several weeks in advance. Granted it was worse that year than it is now.

I'm not positive but I think Hemphill was pretty close with some guys already on staff that he'd worked for at previous stops. I don't think that was true for Sawvel.
 
JKW385 said:
Don’t disagree with this but Cuse, LVille, and BC have similar talent to Wake and did much better than we did against them (even if they lost). Will give you that State and Pitt have better talent that we do and not a coincidence that those are 2 they lost. It also didn’t help we had to play them in Death Valley on Senior Day. FSU and Tarholes have close to talent of Clemson and we play both of them much better for whatever reason. I think Veneables is just a really good DC and our defense is not very good.
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I think FSU and UNC lack the coaching to make the talent play well each week. Clemson has generally had a great combo of talent and coaching.

Do agree that when/where we played Clemson mattered too. If the game was home in October we were more likely to win.
 
tigerswood said:
If we had a DC that schemed as well as Rug (other than the lack of quick hitting plays in the first 3-4 drives today), we’d give 30% less yardage and 50% less points. We have the worst defensive coordinator in the country, and I’m not sure it’s close. Pop Warner coaches teach better tackling, as well.
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I don’t know a ton about football so it has been tough for me to be too confident in making claims about defensive scheme, etc. But as an observer, the Clemson D vs out offense felt like a real example of good coaching. Clemson obviously came out with a really good plan that messed us up in the first quarter, but then we adjusted our offensive plan based on that and were super productive the rest of the game.

It doesn’t feel like we often see that with our D. I know Clawson has talked about plans we’ve put into place against certain teams but it seems like those end up being very fragile and poorly executed, since instead of tweaking what we already do, we try to implement something new that players aren’t able to understand well and relies on very specific personnel (eg when Garnes went out vs Navy, our game plan was screwed — imo that’s probably bad planning)
 
CONeill said:
To answer some shit from the injury notes ...

- Ellison looked to be hurt on the last touchdown against State; he was kind of limping to the sideline. Only noticed on re-watch. Also had some beneficial timing of walking into Clawson's Tuesday presser behind him and noticed he had a pretty large knee brace on.

- Jurgens' injury is of the "undisclosed" variety, and I assume there's enough inside Wake football knowledge to know what that means. It's the same injury that made him miss last year's UNC game.

- I was shocked Roberson was not only playing, but that he wasn't a decoy; I'd been told he was only going to be used in emergency situations. He was one of our two players we got for interviews and I asked him bluntly "when did you know you were going to play?" and he said Thursday ... which is extremely late in the process to have that solidified.

Speaking of slots, though, Ke'Shawn looked like he was moving at about 60% of his normal agility/speed.

- In my defense: Gavin Holmes was not out there with the corners until late in warm-ups. But ... I imagine he was getting situated with pads and his cast.

- Nasir, man ... it just seems like he'll never be completely healthy. Or if he is, it'll be fleeting. I hope I'm wrong.
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Not sure what that means re: Jurgens — did he have COVID?
 
CONeill said:
To answer some shit from the injury notes ...

- Ellison looked to be hurt on the last touchdown against State; he was kind of limping to the sideline. Only noticed on re-watch. Also had some beneficial timing of walking into Clawson's Tuesday presser behind him and noticed he had a pretty large knee brace on.

- Jurgens' injury is of the "undisclosed" variety, and I assume there's enough inside Wake football knowledge to know what that means. It's the same injury that made him miss last year's UNC game.

- I was shocked Roberson was not only playing, but that he wasn't a decoy; I'd been told he was only going to be used in emergency situations. He was one of our two players we got for interviews and I asked him bluntly "when did you know you were going to play?" and he said Thursday ... which is extremely late in the process to have that solidified.

Speaking of slots, though, Ke'Shawn looked like he was moving at about 60% of his normal agility/speed.

- In my defense: Gavin Holmes was not out there with the corners until late in warm-ups. But ... I imagine he was getting situated with pads and his cast.

- Nasir, man ... it just seems like he'll never be completely healthy. Or if he is, it'll be fleeting. I hope I'm wrong.
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Damnit Connor, you're just part of the fake media :thumbsup:

Seriously, its a shame with Na'Sir, seems like some guys just can't stay healthy, no fault of their own.
 
inspectah said:
He was much more vocal about it in 2018 and all but telegraphed there would be changes on that side several weeks in advance. Granted it was worse that year than it is now.

I'm not positive but I think Hemphill was pretty close with some guys already on staff that he'd worked for at previous stops. I don't think that was true for Sawvel.
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Hemphill worked for Dave Cohen who goes way back with Clawson. I doubt Hemphill leaves the staff — I think/hope most likely scenario is either a co-defensive coordinator type deal or Hemphill is demoted back to position coach, with the day-to-day looking pretty similar in either scenario. I would assume mostly based on the desires of the new defensive coach. The ideal scenario might be getting a vet DC / former HC maybe who is happy being co-DC and mentoring Hemphill.
 
MBDeac08 said:
I think FSU and UNC lack the coaching to make the talent play well each week. Clemson has generally had a great combo of talent and coaching.

Do agree that when/where we played Clemson mattered too. If the game was home in October we were more likely to win.
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Agreed. FSU has pretty much been a dumpster fire program since Jimbo left, and Mack Brown 2.0 has been great at hauling in top recruits but so far UNC has little to show for it on the field. And Clemson has clearly improved as the season has gone on - we would have had a much better shot at beating Clemson a month or two ago, imo.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
Not sure what that means re: Jurgens — did he have COVID?
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Or is it code for some off the field shenanigans - ie missing a class or something? Don’t really care if that’s the case- will he be back for BC?
 
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