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Wake/Pitt

This is not to call John out, because obviously without him we don't win, but he needs to grab the damn ball going out of bounds next time (with 5 seconds left). I know he thought it was off Pittsburgh, but that told me that he didn't want to shoot the free throws (maybe a hot take). He could have effectively ended the game if he grabbed that, and with his hands I'mpretty sure he would've gotten it.
 
pourdeac said:
Umm...we've seen Manning coach up players. How in the world could you ever say any class is a complete dud when they haven't even played much? That's absurd.
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I didn't say the whole class was a complete dud. I said the class looks pretty bad. There is a decent chance BC turns into a mid-level starter and Sam turns into a rotational big. But I don't really see any ceiling for any player in the class to be a high level all-ACC level player. Even in the best development case.

So that is certainly a negative for a coach in a 4 player class, a few years in.
 
But let me also add, certainly not a deal breaker. Every coach had a ledger, debits and credits. The 2016 class is currently just a point in the negative column. Lots of other positives and negatives for coach Manning.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
This is not to call John out, because obviously without him we don't win, but he needs to grab the damn ball going out of bounds next time (with 5 seconds left). I know he thought it was off Pittsburgh, but that told me that he didn't want to shoot the free throws (maybe a hot take). He could have effectively ended the game if he grabbed that, and with his hands I'mpretty sure he would've gotten it.
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That's an incredibly hot take. He obviously went after it, and since it was literally off Pitt he probably made the correct decision. Refs fucked up big-time.

John Collins wants the ball in his hands. Simple as that. Key and Crawford too. Any of them would cherish shooting with the game on the line.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
This is not to call John out, because obviously without him we don't win, but he needs to grab the damn ball going out of bounds next time (with 5 seconds left). I know he thought it was off Pittsburgh, but that told me that he didn't want to shoot the free throws (maybe a hot take). He could have effectively ended the game if he grabbed that, and with his hands I'mpretty sure he would've gotten it.
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I thought from a different angle, it showed that he actually was pretty far from being able to catch the ball. Initially, I was concerned that the ball possibly went off him, but a different angle showed there was no way that was possible.
 
So the initial call was off of Pitt and they upheld it? I thought it was pretty blurry as to who actually touched the ball last but seems like most on here strongly believe it was off Pitt.
 
FckVwls said:
I didn't say the whole class was a complete dud. I said the class looks pretty bad. There is a decent chance BC turns into a mid-level starter and Sam turns into a rotational big. But I don't really see any ceiling for any player in the class to be a high level all-ACC level player. Even in the best development case.

So that is certainly a negative for a coach in a 4 player class, a few years in.
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You said "'16 freshman class looks pretty bad on the whole, and will likely never be a good class". Not a good class means dud.....dude.

BC turns into a mid-level starter? He's probably going to be one of the best PGs in the ACC by the time he's a senior. He's already playing at a high level, there isn't any real drop-off between he and Crawford. The way Manning coaches up bigs, you have no idea how good Sam or anyone else is going to turn out at this point either. We haven't even seen them play much.
 
FckVwls said:
I didn't say the whole class was a complete dud. I said the class looks pretty bad. There is a decent chance BC turns into a mid-level starter and Sam turns into a rotational big. But I don't really see any ceiling for any player in the class to be a high level all-ACC level player. Even in the best development case.

So that is certainly a negative for a coach in a 4 player class, a few years in.
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You don't get All-ACC players every year or there would be 50 All-ACC players around the league.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
He needs to learn to play smarter though. The off the backboard pass to Collins was incredibly stupid and it was only luck and Collins great hands that allowed us to get 2 points out of what should've been an easy 2. Crawford is the kind of player I'm glad we've got, you need a guy that has that kind of confidence and fearlessness, but he needs to continue to learn how to use all that in the right way.
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He needs to channel a little CMM. CMM was a great finisher at the rim. That's one of the top things for him to work on over the summer.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
He needs to learn to play smarter though. The off the backboard pass to Collins was incredibly stupid and it was only luck and Collins great hands that allowed us to get 2 points out of what should've been an easy 2. Crawford is the kind of player I'm glad we've got, you need a guy that has that kind of confidence and fearlessness, but he needs to continue to learn how to use all that in the right way.
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Off the backboard was his only bonehead play last night in a game he wouldn't let us quit and led back from a huge deficit to victory. No one is perfect.

The play that some got on him for last night was actually the right play. The behind-the-back pass for the dunk was the right play. He kept going towards the basket and took defenders with him. Had he slowed down or moved to the wing to make a more "conventional" pass, that same lane would not have existed for JC. He could have resulted in anything from a TO to an offensive foul on JC. Sometimes a behind-the-back pass is actually the most conservative and call for play.
 
pourdeac said:
You said "'16 freshman class looks pretty bad on the whole, and will likely never be a good class". Not a good class means dud.....dude.

BC turns into a mid-level starter? He's probably going to be one of the best PGs in the ACC by the time he's a senior. He's already playing at a high level, there isn't any real drop-off between he and Crawford. The way Manning coaches up bigs, you have no idea how good Sam or anyone else is going to turn out at this point either. We haven't even seen them play much.
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I like the flavor of your kool aid!.
 
Deac83 said:
He needs to channel a little CMM. CMM was a great finisher at the rim. That's one of the top things for him to work on over the summer.
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What I'd like to see him do is slow down on the break. He's strong enough to make layups through contact and if he misses, he'd create contact.
 
FckVwls said:
But let me also add, certainly not a deal breaker. Every coach had a ledger, debits and credits. The 2016 class is currently just a point in the negative column. Lots of other positives and negatives for coach Manning.
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Hear what you are saying but i think you are undervaluing Chill. Childress will be a very good 4 year player for Wake. He has some leadership qualities that frankly we haven't had out of the guard position since Ish left. He is also our best on-ball defender and I think that as the game continues to slow down for him, his outside shooting will improve. I am glad we have him

Big Sam could turn into a very solid player for us as well. He is certainly big enough and seems athletic enough too. Manning will help his development for sure

Mitchell and Washington - time will tell.

Calling this class a dud is a bit pre-mature considering that three out of the four players have barely been able to get on the court due to older guys being ahead of them... you may end up being right, i just think that we need to wait until this time next year...
 
DeaconSig said:
Led by you, sunshine. Your reading comprehension skills really fucking suck. And your deluded idea that somehow posting the same shit over and over again, in the most pretentious way possible, makes people think you are smart is way the fuck out there.
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Wasn't referring to you chief. I post the same shit over and over again in response to nonsense that crops up after seemingly every game. The fact that I'm a dick about it (which stems from frustration at having to continue making the argument in the first place) doesn't make it any less true.

And (again not really directed at you) at least I'm willing to defend my arguments or change my opinion when faced with better ones instead of complaining about other people's posting style, hoping Manning fails in order to confirm my point of view, or pleading for everyone to accept that two mutually exclusive opinions can both be valid.

If people can't handle a robust debate about wake basketball they should go join BKF in his safe space (when does his fantasy baseball thread start up again).
 
pourdeac said:
You said "'16 freshman class looks pretty bad on the whole, and will likely never be a good class". Not a good class means dud.....dude.

BC turns into a mid-level starter? He's probably going to be one of the best PGs in the ACC by the time he's a senior. He's already playing at a high level, there isn't any real drop-off between he and Crawford. The way Manning coaches up bigs, you have no idea how good Sam or anyone else is going to turn out at this point either. We haven't even seen them play much.
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You can't be serious. At this point Bryant is, at worst, the third best PG in the ACC. I thnik argument could be made that only Dennis Smith is better considering Bryant's supporting cast.
 
pourdeac said:
You said "'16 freshman class looks pretty bad on the whole, and will likely never be a good class". Not a good class means dud.....dude.

BC turns into a mid-level starter? He's probably going to be one of the best PGs in the ACC by the time he's a senior. He's already playing at a high level, there isn't any real drop-off between he and Crawford. The way Manning coaches up bigs, you have no idea how good Sam or anyone else is going to turn out at this point either. We haven't even seen them play much.
Click to expand...

:squint:
 
wakephan09 said:
That's an incredibly hot take. He obviously went after it, and since it was literally off Pitt he probably made the correct decision. Refs fucked up big-time.

John Collins wants the ball in his hands. Simple as that. Key and Crawford too. Any of them would cherish shooting with the game on the line.
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Too bad BC missed two with the game in the balance
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
So the initial call was off of Pitt and they upheld it? I thought it was pretty blurry as to who actually touched the ball last but seems like most on here strongly believe it was off Pitt.
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Might have been a similar situation to Clippers/OKC game 5 a few years ago where the ball was technically went off Matt Barnes last but was clearly knocked out by the OKC defender swiping for the ball, hitting Barnes' hand and causing the ball to go out.

Still looked like Pitt guy touched it last.
 
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