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It's gonna be hung! CP3's jersey finally getting retired March 2

Why the Deac Not said:
Sorry, Rodney single-handedly took down Dook at Cameron with a 37 point performance, that's enough to secure #2 behind Childress for all time IMHO. When he wanted to be, he was the most dominant player I saw that year. Childress took it to a new level two years later at the ACCT.
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Rodney and Randolph are 2 of my all-time favorite Deacons.

But if we are rating the most gifted WFU players ever, I'm pretty sure that Tim Duncan tops that list. Rodney may be #2.
 
IrishSlim said:
The question posed was if Irving becomes the greatest player in the history of the NBA. Not kidding at all. Whether the college purists like it or not, what one accomplishes after college often matters with these things, the same as it matters for alumni being honored by their alma mater in every other facet of existence.

God, didn't realize we have so many whiny ostriches in the Wake ranks. (Just kidding. I knew that already. Our fan base sucks. For further proof of such, see the post that immediately follows this one. What. A. Clown.)
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The "whiny" comments are out of line, IMO - at least with respect to me... I am not whining and I have nothing against CP3 personally, it is just a matter of defining when a jersey should be retired. As I understand the honor - deciding that no other player should wear a jersey - it is based upon accomplishments (i.e. career) while wearing the jersey. I see no reason to retire a jersey based upon what someone does afterward - just like I see no reason to un-retire a jersey because the player flopped as a pro - or ended up in jail for child molestation or something... What matters is the career in the jersey.

There are other honors a school can bestow that can be, or are, based on accomplishments after they leave - like halls of fame, and the like.
 
scooter84 said:
This is not a fair comparison because muggsy hardly played his freshman year - playing behind future pro danny young.
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OK, if we don't include Muggsy's freshman year, he did not play in an NCAA Tournament and Wake won 8 ACC games in his career. For those (not you necessarily Scooter) saying Paul's teams didn't accomplish enough,
--leading Wake to their 1st ever #1 ranking
--winning 3 NCAA Tournament games
--winning more games in a season than any Wake team ever
--winning as many ACC games in a season as any Wake team ever

LilburnDeac said:
And Muggsy's number was retired before his final home game of his senior year. But it didn't hang in the Joel for a few more years.
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According to Muggsy's own website and others, Wake didn't retire his number until he graduated, which was in 1999. Muggsy's NBA success probably helped his jersey get hung as well.

I don't have a problem with Muggsy's jersey up in the rafters. I just think anyone who has a problem hanging Paul's jersey should compare his career with Muggsy.
 
Based on total career accomplishments, tough not to put Timmy in the top 2, but Rodney was the most dominant player I've seen at the college level in person when he was motivated and played with a chip on his shoulder. I have a hard time putting CP3 in the top two all-time cuz he left early, but that's my personal opinion. Obviously CP3 made the team around him so much better and never got to play with a dominant big man like Tim, which certainly aided Childress his last two years. But in terms of sheer talent and the ability to take over a game, I gotta go with RoRo, Chill, CP3, then Tim. The problem with rankings like that is Timmy was only so good as his team was at getting him the ball.

And then there's the problem of comparing eras, I'm sure some real old-timers would put Davis ahead of them all and perhaps even Hemric or Chappel, but college b'ball didn't have as much across the board size and agility so bigger dudes with touch could really dominate right?

I don't think there's any issue with hanging CP3's jersey, but to put him in the top 5 of the pantheon of all-time Deac greats might be a tough debate to win.
 
Tim Duncan was the National Player of the Year. I think the argument for #1 is over. After that, go crazy.
 
Tim Duncan is the best player we've ever had.


I could listen to an argument for Rodney over CP, but whoever loses that tight battle is 3rd.
 
BillBrasky said:
Tim Duncan was the National Player of the Year. I think the argument for #1 is over. After that, go crazy.
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This. Tim Duncan had one of the greatest careers in the history of college basketball. He has now gone on to have an even better pro career.
 
Even if I were to put Timmy ahead of RoRo, no way I can put him ahead of Childress. No disrespect intended to Tim, but from watching him in person for the better part of 3 years, one with Rodney, and two with Timmy, I can't not rank Chill #1. Duncan was the Pippen to Chill's Jordan. Too many games won and the nod goes to the guard with the biggest cajones ever in Wake history.
 
qcdeac said:
According to Muggsy's own website and others, Wake didn't retire his number until he graduated, which was in 1999. Muggsy's NBA success probably helped his jersey get hung as well.

I don't have a problem with Muggsy's jersey up in the rafters. I just think anyone who has a problem hanging Paul's jersey should compare his career with Muggsy.
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Those websites are confusing when he graduated and when he completed his eligibility. I was there when his jersey was retired. It was before his final home game of his Senior year. It also mentions this in an ACC basketball history book that I have. The book was written in 1988.
 
Why the Deac Not said:
Even if I were to put Timmy ahead of RoRo, no way I can put him ahead of Childress. No disrespect intended to Tim, but from watching him in person for the better part of 3 years, one with Rodney, and two with Timmy, I can't not rank Chill #1. Duncan was the Pippen to Chill's Jordan. Too many games won and the nod goes to the guard with the biggest cajones ever in Wake history.
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I think you could make an argument that Childress was the most important basketball player at Wake ever. But he was in no way a more gifted basketball player than Duncan, Rogers, Paul.
 
Tim Duncan had 87 double doubles at WF and was NPOY. Is this really an argument?
 
LilburnDeac said:
Rodney and Randolph are 2 of my all-time favorite Deacons.

But if we are rating the most gifted WFU players ever, I'm pretty sure that Tim Duncan tops that list. Rodney may be #2.
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CP gives TD a run for his money in terms of ranking gifted athletes, they co-hold number 1 (for this era at least).
 
Am I the only one who thinks these "arguments" are insane? WGF if you or I think that TD is ranked higher that RoRo or Chill or CP3.

We have a great legacy that is being destroyed as we speak.
 
In 2003 TJ Ford won the Naismith POY and Wooden POY, David West won the AP POY.
 
qcdeac said:
Longer, yes. More impressive, no.

Individual Career Stats

Minutes Per Game
Paul 33.5
Bogues 30.0

Points Per Game
Paul 15.0
Bogues 8.3

FG%
Bogues 47.3%
Paul 47.1%

3pt FG%
Paul 46.9%
Bogues 44.3% (only Sr. year)

FT%
Paul 83.8%
Bogues 74.9%

Assists
Bogues 6.6
Paul 6.3

Rebounds
Paul 3.9
Bogues 2.4

Steals
Paul 2.5
Bogues 2.3

Contribution to Team Postseason Success

Minutes Played in the NCAA Tournament
Paul 189
Bogues 19

Points Scored in the NCAA Tournament
Paul 105
Bogues 0

ACC Conference Wins
Paul 22
Bogues 16(includes ACC Tournament)
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I could give you Dick Joyce's per minute numbers, and I bet he beats both those guys. Bottom line is longevity does count for something. Not just in this discussion but in all sports.

And as for those who keep saying it's stupid to hold it against CP that he was good enough to go to the next level early ... we didn't give him a diploma, either, did we? Some things you forfeit when you leave early. It's not a matter of holding a grudge or "punishing" him, it's just a fact - he had a choice to make, whether to take the NBA millions or whether to cement his legacy at Wake Forest. He made the right choice. I would have made the same choice. Doesn't mean he should get to have his cake and eat it, too.
 
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