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Last Play To Codi

qcdeac said:
Fuck State.

The most recent error occurred on Sunday at Wake Forest, when Referee Mike Wood ruled that a shot by North Carolina State's C. C. Harrison was a 3-pointer, giving the last-place Wolfpack a 60-59 overtime victory. Replays clearly showed that Harrison's foot was on the 3-point line when he launched his leaning jump shot, which banked in at the buzzer......The loss dropped the Demon Deacons, who were then ranked second nationally, to 20-3 over all, 9-3 in the A.C.C., and out of first place in the conference for the first time this season.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/18/sports/errors-cast-a-cloud-over-acc-referees.html
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*Shudder* I Was there - and they were running the replay on the tv's on the concourse - could not believe state got away with that. Timmy's senior year. The game should have not been that close to begin with, though.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
There is no process of gathering, either you have ended your dribble or not. I think you can take 20 steps between dribbling as long as you don't "end your dribble" but only if the ball "is not in contact with your hand." The ball was in constant contact with Codi's hand. So the foot on the floor when the ball comes up the last time is the pivot foot. It can not leave the ground and come back down before the ball is released. Sure he could have dribbled, but he didn't, so that foot can't leave and come back down.

And that is not usually going to get called. And State should have not let CMM drive uncontested the length of the court.
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Watch the Harden euro step and tell me how many steps you think he took. If you think there's no process of gathering, then your answer should be about four.
 
TexasDeac10 said:
Watch the Harden euro step and tell me how many steps you think he took. If you think there's no process of gathering, then your answer should be about four.
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I did watch it and it is perfectly legal. His left foot was on the ground when the ball comes in contact with both his hands. He steps with his right and lifts his left foot. He releases the ball before the left foot hits again. Exactly what I was saying, and not anything like what Codi did.
 
And I'd be surprised if the Reff showed up because I think technically this was probably the wrong call and I only ever see him defending questionable calls. I'm not sure he'll try to defend this one.
 
Okay, these were pulled from the Youtube I posted earlier but here is a screengrab of the last frame I could get of him with his left foot off the floor

29cncq8.jpg



And here is the first one I could get with his left foot on the floor

209gbqq.png



In my opinion, he's still a legal dribbler in both the first and second frame. Had he decided to put the ball back on the floor, he could have without committing a turnover.

2rwq8ed.png


Here he has clearly ended his dribble and goes on to take two steps on his way to the layup.
 
Legal dribbler is not the issue. Your pic shows his left foot down with the ball touching the left hand. Codi has the ball touching his hand(s) while the left foot is on the ground, off the ground, and back on the ground again. You can't do that. You're trying to make a distinction about how he his touching the ball (ie, he could dribble again) but I don't think that matters.

And the bolded part made me feel like Jaybone as I typed it.
 
Those screen grabs essentially confirm he traveled. He could've kept dribbling after the first frame - but he didn't. He picked up his dribble. Step counts.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Legal dribbler is not the issue. Your pic shows his left foot down with the ball touching the left hand. Codi has the ball touching his hand(s) while the left foot is on the ground, off the ground, and back on the ground again. You can't do that. You're trying to make a distinction about how he his touching the ball (ie, he could dribble again) but I don't think that matters.

And the bolded part made me feel like Jaybone as I typed it.
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This whole thing centers on when he ended his dribble and per the rule Chris posted is allowed to establish his pivot foot. The rules dictate that your dribble doesn't end until:

Art. 4. The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest
in one or both hands;
b. The dribbler touches the ball with both hands simultaneously;
c. An opponent bats the ball; or
d. The ball becomes dead.

I don't think he did a. or b. until the third screenshot which would then give him two steps to complete the layup.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Legal dribbler is not the issue. Your pic shows his left foot down with the ball touching the left hand. Codi has the ball touching his hand(s) while the left foot is on the ground, off the ground, and back on the ground again. You can't do that. You're trying to make a distinction about how he his touching the ball (ie, he could dribble again) but I don't think that matters.

And the bolded part made me feel like Jaybone as I typed it.
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Actually this is exactly it, and it absolutely matters. He's either dribbling or he's not dribbling. How he's touching the ball is what determines that - NOT whether it's touching his hand or not. Clearly it's not touching both hands, so the question is did it come to rest due to palming or carrying. This is why you should watch the play in real time, and just watch the ball. It doesn't rest until he grabs it with both hands and makes a solid euro step move.

You could question whether it was a carry during the crossover to his right hand, but that would be a serious stretch.
 
LOL at arguing CMM didn't travel. He did, clearly. But it wasn't called, often isn't called, and we won the game. Most fans know you can't seriously moan about a missed travel call on a game-winning drive. It's barely noteworthy.

But he did travel.
 
This clip is approaching Zapruder-level scrutiny
 
HCF3 said:
*Shudder* I Was there - and they were running the replay on the tv's on the concourse - could not believe state got away with that. Timmy's senior year. The game should have not been that close to begin with, though.
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And this wasn't even the biggest nightmare of that season. Goddamned Mike Montgomery.
 
bmoneydeac said:
Okay, these were pulled from the Youtube I posted earlier but here is a screengrab of the last frame I could get of him with his left foot off the floor

29cncq8.jpg



And here is the first one I could get with his left foot on the floor

209gbqq.png



In my opinion, he's still a legal dribbler in both the first and second frame. Had he decided to put the ball back on the floor, he could have without committing a turnover.

2rwq8ed.png


Here he has clearly ended his dribble and goes on to take two steps on his way to the layup.
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This just shows he traveled. He could have continued dribbling but when he didn't he took a step which counts towards counting a travel. He then took two more steps.

Like I said it doesn't matter because we won and stuff like that doesn't get called a lot. That doesn't mean that it isn't a travel, it just means it doesn't get called. It's also not going to be called 95% of the time at the end of a game.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
This just shows he traveled. He could have continued dribbling but when he didn't he took a step which counts towards counting a travel. He then took two more steps.

Like I said it doesn't matter because we won and stuff like that doesn't get called a lot. That doesn't mean that it isn't a travel, it just means it doesn't get called. It's also not going to be called 95% of the time at the end of a game.
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Do you realize by saying "he could have continued dribbling" it means he's an active dribbler so the step doesn't count? You don't look back after he stops his dribble (third frame) and say welp let's count that step he's ALREADY TAKEN because he decided not to dribble again. If he's legally able to take another dribble at frame two (whether he does it or not is irrelevant), it is not a travel. Thems the rules.
 
bmoneydeac said:
You can still cut while dribbling the basketball. Again, until you reach a point where you could no longer legally dribble again without committing a carry or double dribble, you are an active dribbler. That point to me occurs virtually simultaneously to when his left foot hits the floor. Two steps and a layup.
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Exactly how I see it. I am trying to see the travel and can see how people do, but shit I can't help but see it simultaneously.
 
At least in the NBA that 100% is not a travel based on the rule and you see it every game from Harden/Ginobili/Parker/Wade. bmoney and texasdeac10 are right about using the gathering of the dribble as a non-step. and appetite is right that almost everything looks like a travel in slow motion. But I'm not sure why everyone cares so much.

Just because he doesn't use the dribble in the first frame doesn't mean he doesn't have his dribble.
 
If Bz. was not our coach, this would not a subject of discussion...at least not on this board.

Whatever else it was, it was 2 points and Wake wins. Good for the team and good for CMM, he got embarrassed earlier in the game.
 
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