• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Addition by Subtraction

BabyDeac75 said:
IMO, there is no scenario where one can logically conclude that we are better off without JTT. None. He was a good teammate, very athletic, showed a willingness to learn and had a tremendous upside. He wasnt polished by any means, but we would be better off with him going into the season.

Right now he has multiple challenges in his life that will require his full attention. If and when they are successfully addressed, then and only then can he turn is attention back to basketball.

But for the team, losing him is not addition by subtraction. One could make a convincing argument that was indeed the case with Tabb. However, you would have to be Aesop's fox to do so with JT.
Click to expand...

Great post......
 
I wish I could lie to myself like a portion of the fanbase does. People are convinced that Coach [Redacted] can coach, based mainly on what he did in 1 season with the Denver Nuggets or 2 seasons at the Air Force Academy. People are convinced that he can recruit based, I can only assume, on the fact that he got guys who played high school basketball to accept a scholarship to Wake.

At this point, the guy has recruited 6 1/2 players to Wake (D. Thomas is 1/2, because it appears he is coming here, but has not "officially" committed). Of those 6 1/2, CMM appears to be a legit ACC-level player. He has the potential to even be an NBA player, based on a couple folks I have spoken to who have watched him play. The remaining commits Coach [Redacted] has received fall into the category of "they will have to drastically out-perform their rankings and evaluations to be anything other than serviceable back-ups in the ACC." Will some of them do that? I would imagine so, if for no other reason than they appear to have the playing time available to make the leap. But if you compare that to teams Wake has put together in the past, the classes of 2011 and 2012 may have less guru-ranked and other-school offered talent than any 2 consecutive classes since the 1996 and 1997 classes ended up being Ammo, West, Stringfellow, and Woods.

While putting these classes together, he has also managed to recruit exactly one physical presence (the aforementioned D. Thomas), who maybe about the height and weight of T. McKie and lost an opportunity to go to Penn State because they took a commitment from somebody else.

Coach [Redacted] may turn out to be a great coach. He may have recruited 3-4 NBA players in the 2011 and 2012 classes. But betting for either thing to happen is equivalent to betting on Duke to win the ACC in football. It's not impossible, but a bookie would give you some amazing odds.
 
Kent said:
+1.

If we are hanging our hat on Fischer to save this team, we beyond grasping for straws. The sad fact- and it has nothing to do with Dino vs Buzz- is that no one- and I mean no one- who isn't an employee, student or alum is the least bit interested in WFU hoops. And every week, more and more students and alums throw in the proverbial towel. At present, there is nothing on earth less inspiring than WFU basketball.

You can ask people to hang in there, when there is a reasonable basis to believe things will get better. Otherwise, there is nowhere to go but further into obscurity.
Click to expand...

Even before we lost JTT no one was expecting this team to be that good. Most rational people had seen a light at the end of the tunnel with a Top 15 2012 recruiting class coming in.

What's sad is those who refuse to give any credit ever. There is a solid group that determined the day [Redacted] was announced that they would only look for failure. To deny this is to deny history.

It would have been great to have gotten Stevens or Turgeon when we fired Dino, but neither was going anywhere that year. Wellman handled it poorly. Few deny this.
 
I now just laugh when fellow Wake fans get excited about the ranking of our recruiting classes. How many times do we have to get burned by that shit to just start to completely ignore it?
 
If the class comets though DV7 and other will look bad. Of coruse they want it to fail.

If we make The Dancei n 12/13 or 13/14 or both, their childish actions will be seen as such.
 
dv7, you're not embracing the greatness of the logic. Some people believe since some highly touted players haven't panned out at Wake, recruiting lower rated players will bring the program back. Of course, if you look at our recruiting post-Duncan, you'll see that the higher rated players were clearly more productive at Wake than the lower rated players.
 
we are going to suck massive moose cock
 
The only "addition" by losing JT will be additional losses.
 
RJKarl said:
If the class comets though DV7 and other will look bad. Of coruse they want it to fail.

If we make The Dancei n 12/13 or 13/14 or both, their childish actions will be seen as such.
Click to expand...

You really think I want Wake Forest to fail? Fuck off.
 
rj, you really think making the dance over the next 3 seasons is the proper standard? How many times will Coach Bz beat Duke or Unc?
 
RJKarl said:
Even before we lost JTT no one was expecting this team to be that good. Most rational people had seen a light at the end of the tunnel with a Top 15 2012 recruiting class coming in.

What's sad is those who refuse to give any credit ever. There is a solid group that determined the day [Redacted] was announced that they would only look for failure. To deny this is to deny history.

It would have been great to have gotten Stevens or Turgeon when we fired Dino, but neither was going anywhere that year. Wellman handled it poorly. Few deny this.
Click to expand...

There has been precious little success, on the court and on the recruiting trail. The class may be top 15 now, but only because it's a large group of good players rather than a couple of great players. It isn't a program changing class. Not only that, but it isn't as good of a class as the 2010 class (which isn't exactly working out too well), and it's bound to drop in the rankings once more players commit.

Both sides of this try to make mountains out of molehills, whether it is myself with Katenda recruiting to Notre Dame, or you with the occasional positive tweet about one of our recruits.

Don't pretend to be the reasonable one about this situation. You aren't. I am not either, and DV7 sure as hell isn't. College sports bring out emotions, that's why we love them, and emotions aren't rational.

If they were I wouldn't have gone to all but two home games last year.
 
lite, in a normal situation I don't that's good, but this isn't a normal situation. Wellman saw the writing on the wall.

A lot of other coaches didn't want to be part of a complete rebuild. Established coaches like Stevens, Turgeon and others realized they could wait a year or two or three and find a much better situation.

Younger coaches understood that they often get just one chance at high major. Taking on a position where you know your team is going to suck big time for two years is not a wise career move.

We didn't have alot of options. Whether we picked the right one is still up for discussion.

We had to bottom out before we could turn it around.

Whomever is our coach in 13/14 and beyond will have a completely different level of expectations from what [Redacted] did for his first two years and justifiably so.
 
"Don't pretend to be the reasonable one about this situation. You aren't. I am not either, and DV7 sure as hell isn't. College sports bring out emotions, that's why we love them, and emotions aren't rational."

How is not "reasonable" to understand that we were totally screwed for last year and this year and to hold [Redacted] responsible for what happens in 12/13 and beyond?
 
RJKarl said:
lite, in a normal situation I don't that's good, but this isn't a normal situation. Wellman saw the writing on the wall.

A lot of other coaches didn't want to be part of a complete rebuild. Established coaches like Stevens, Turgeon and others realized they could wait a year or two or three and find a much better situation.

Younger coaches understood that they often get just one chance at high major. Taking on a position where you know your team is going to suck big time for two years is not a wise career move.

We didn't have alot of options. Whether we picked the right one is still up for discussion.

We had to bottom out before we could turn it around.

Whomever is our coach in 13/14 and beyond will have a completely different level of expectations from what [Redacted] did for his first two years and justifiably so.
Click to expand...

Maryland isn't much better of a situation than Wake. And if things had gone according to plan we could have been a tournament team this year. Recall that we have unexpectedly lost 4 players that would have played this year, and lost another for half a season.
 
RJKarl said:
"Don't pretend to be the reasonable one about this situation. You aren't. I am not either, and DV7 sure as hell isn't. College sports bring out emotions, that's why we love them, and emotions aren't rational."

How is not "reasonable" to understand that we were totally screwed for last year and this year and to hold [Redacted] responsible for what happens in 12/13 and beyond?
Click to expand...

You play the card dealt to you, and [Redacted] did a poor job with a bad hand last year.

I also happen to think it's reasonable to look at [Redacted]'s resume and realize that there is not a damn thing on it that should make anyone think he can elevate the program.
 
TBR said:
Maryland isn't much better of a situation than Wake. And if things had gone according to plan we could have been a tournament team this year. Recall that we have unexpectedly lost 4 players that would have played this year, and lost another for half a season.
Click to expand...

MD takes players we won't.

Tony would have helped a bit last season but he was a marginal talent.

Tabb had problems going in that we hoped to cure, but some can't be sured.

Ari created his own problems that aren't fair to discuss in public.

If everything had worked out, we may have challenged this year. However these are part of main REASON we had to change the "culture".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top