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Do you eat alone with the opposite sex?

Lunch?

  • Of course

    Votes: 77 90.6%

  • Yes, but my SO would not like it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, I stand with Mike Pence

    Votes: 8 9.4%

  • Doofus only eats with Numbers

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    85
TownieDeac said:
hm
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BddVrt4.jpg
 
DeacDiggler said:
My wife and I operate under the same rules. I suspect Pence and his wife do as well. I agree with you that there are plenty of "Christians" who use the Bible to keep women down, but that's not what the Bible actually teaches. As a man, my calling is to serve my wife. I guess that's a long way of saying, yes, I see your point, but it's possible to have this practice and still not debase women.
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I mean the Book of Common Prayer's template for marriage vows has these as the groom/bride:


Groom: I,____, take thee,_____, to be my wedded Wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth.

Bride: I,_____, take thee,_____, to be my wedded Husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and to obey, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I give thee my troth.

Not from the Bible directly, but I would posit that you find far more examples of the Bible promoting sexism and inequality of the sexes than you would promoting equality of the sexes.
 
If you wanna do it in your personal life, have at it (really have at it anyway idc), but what you have to realize is that when you carry that behavior into the work place, you are discriminating due to your own perceived personal weakness.

If I am the boss on a sales force and I take doofus and ITK, both my top sales goons, with me on a out of town client pitch, and we meet with client and they have comments to our pitch. Meeting ends at 6 and ITK says "Hey I was taking notes and I have like 8 ideas to refine the pitch, want to discuss over dinner"

"No I dont think that is appropriate, email me your ideas insead. Doofus, you dont have a working vagina do you? Lets go get some beers"
 
From Ephesians 5: Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. 25Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

Every church I have ever attended says that the man is the head of the family, but that the only way to be the proper head of the family is to serve your family and your wife, sacrificing ourselves for them. By doing so we show Christian leadership.

I totally agree that plenty of people don't follow this and use those vows and verses as weapons.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
If you wanna do it in your personal life, have at it (really have at it anyway idc), but what you have to realize is that when you carry that behavior into the work place, you are discriminating due to your own perceived personal weakness.

If I am the boss on a sales force and I take doofus and ITK, both my top sales goons, with me on a out of town client pitch, and we meet with client and they have comments to our pitch. Meeting ends at 6 and ITK says "Hey I was taking notes and I have like 8 ideas to refine the pitch, want to discuss over dinner"

"No I dont think that is appropriate, email me your ideas insead. Doofus, you dont have a working vagina do you? Lets go get some beers"
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ha - yes, this would be problematic. I would handle it a little differently. I'd suggest we all go to dinner together, first of all. If Doofus bails, I'll go to dinner with ITK, but I would limit my wine to one glass and I'd be out as early as possible. I'm not a dick about it.
 
DeacDiggler said:
From Ephesians 5: Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. 25Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

Every church I have ever attended says that the man is the head of the family, but that the only way to be the proper head of the family is to serve your family and your wife, sacrificing ourselves for them. By doing so we show Christian leadership.

I totally agree that plenty of people don't follow this and use those vows and verses as weapons.
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The man as the head of the family is bullshit.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I mean the Book of Common Prayer's template for marriage vows has these as the groom/bride:


Groom: I,____, take thee,_____, to be my wedded Wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth.

Bride: I,_____, take thee,_____, to be my wedded Husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and to obey, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I give thee my troth.

Not from the Bible directly, but I would posit that you find far more examples of the Bible promoting sexism and inequality of the sexes than you would promoting equality of the sexes.
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Yeah so "obey" was in the 1662 version, but removed in the 1928 American version. Plight (man promising) vs. give (woman giving) troth (faith, loyalty) was still in the 1928 version and optional in the 1979 version.
 
From Time

Likewise, the inevitable consequence of Pence’s rule is to preserve and pass down men’s power to other men. If powerful men are free to meet alone with other men, and to exclude women from the most powerful rooms in the country — how will women ever occupy those rooms in their own right? If powerful men are only able to mentor young men, where does that leave young women? If, as data suggests, the most mutually beneficial negotiations take place over meals, then doesn’t denying a woman the opportunity to break bread equate to denying her the opportunity to close a deal — to be heard? Access is power; access denied is power denied.

What if male professors stopped meeting alone with female students? What if male doctors refused to meet with female patients? What if a Vice President announced he would never dine alone with a black person? If any of these hypothetical rules alarms you, so should Pence’s.

Jesus himself deliberately sought out women with whom to meet alone, including the most scandalous women of his day. Remember the woman at the well, Vice President? Jesus met with her because that was part of His job on earth. Meeting with women is part of yours too.

http://time.com/4723444/glennon-doyle-melton-pence-wife-jesus/
 
Well said TAB/Time - as I noted above, because I understand that a complete adherence to this "policy" isn't practical, I work through it on a case by case basis. I have several women that report to me at work and I meet with them regularly, but always in an appropriate place and setting.
 
DeacDiggler said:
Aren't you a Christian? If so, I'm genuinely interested to hear how you reconcile this with Ephesians.
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The Bible was written by men in a paternalistic society that wanted to preserved their power. Next?
 
DeacDiggler said:
Aren't you a Christian? If so, I'm genuinely interested to hear how you reconcile this with Ephesians.
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Probably the same way a Christian reconciles not literally believing or practicing everything that's in the Bible. Cognitive damn dissonance all day every day until you decide to pick and choose what parts you still like.
 
My wife and I both work and we were joking about this subject and she said "No, I'm serious, be the head of the house." She doesn't want to be the hardliner at the end of her work day with regard to disciplining the kids or making major financial decisions. Home labor wise she does laundry because she hates the way I do it, I handle the lawn and stuff outdoors and we split everything else.

She did NOT say obey in her vows, though. She's certainly not submitting as much as the bible says to either, darn it. Otherwise I'd be doing better than just Sunday mornings and two Friday nights a month.... :)
 
Demonwolverine said:
Unless that person happens to be the Vice President of the United States and has a hand in influencing policies that affect the main stream. Personally, I don't care what he does behind closed doors or what it takes to keep his marriage together as long as he separates it from his public policy.
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this is what is scary.

TheTwinAndreBen said:
What I think you are still missing is how these opinions debase women and treat/view them as only sexual objects. There are like a thousand internet feminists out there that could explain it better than me, but really setting up some of these rules is really like the Michelob Ultra version of making a woman wear a burqa.
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agree with this.

DeacDiggler said:
My wife and I operate under the same rules. I suspect Pence and his wife do as well. I agree with you that there are plenty of "Christians" who use the Bible to keep women down, but that's not what the Bible actually teaches. As a man, my calling is to serve my wife. I guess that's a long way of saying, yes, I see your point, but it's possible to have this practice and still not debase women.
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you are not the problem. you have a reasoned approach to your relationship that i respect but disagree with. i don't for one second think that mike pence believes like you do. he would legislate (and has) some very scary things in the name of his religious beliefs.

and i'll say again, this as a policy assumes men and women are not in control of their actions. having a church preach this as a doctrine (rather than two people coming up with it for their own marriage) is what is sad to me.
 
I attended a wedding of a recent WFU grad (read: within last ten years), where one of the readings outlined the whole 'wife's role is to obey/submit'.

I do hope my jaw hitting the floor didn't distract from the ceremony, but I was completely dumbfounded that a modern, college-educated person would entertain those sentiments, let alone feature them in a fucking wedding ceremony.

I'm also a proponent of 'you do you', but I'd be lying if my opinion of the couple didn't change that day.
 
I can't be alone with a female patient if I want to look at her breasts you need a chaperone, I blame Pence.
 
Sort of a pivot, but not really, speaking of legislating through religion. Did anyone see the HBO abortion documentary recently? Focused on POS Missouri and a lot of bible banging politicians there who are basically lock step with Pence.

We just need to burn the midwest down at this point.
 
HailToTheDeacons said:
I attended a wedding of a recent WFU grad (read: within last ten years), where one of the readings outlined the whole 'wife's role is to obey/submit'.

I do hope my jaw hitting the floor didn't distract from the ceremony, but I was completely dumbfounded that a modern, college-educated person would entertain those sentiments, let alone feature them in a fucking wedding ceremony.

I'm also a proponent of 'you do you', but I'd be lying if my opinion of the couple didn't change that day.
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It's still pretty common in the South. The guy may feel smug at the altar, but when the wife takes for granted that submission means "I'll never work and just give you babies, a clean house and clean clothes" things get stressful...being the sole provider, as I was for many years, will cause that stress meter to rise quite a bit. There are plenty of women who still go to college, even an expensive as hell college like Wake, just to get that MRS degree.
 
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