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FBI tapping all Verizon calls

Wrangor said:
94 - I interpreted your original post to point the main blame at Bush and the Republicans in congress. If I misunderstood I apologize. I agree with you 100% that the blame is spread evenly with both parties. Bush for signing, bi partisan legislators for creating it, and the current government for continuing and expanding on it. Obama could come out against this and get it stopped, but he doesn't. Bush obviously was in favor of it.

More proof of the linkage of W and Obama as brothers from another mother. The similarities when it comes to government over-reach are frightening. It is so odd to me that Obama pretty much ran both of his campaigns to the tune of 'I am not W', and then crafts his administration to look very much like the guy.
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Okay, let's take a look.

94Deac said:
Collecting the call records isn't the same as tapping.

Not that it isn't insidious and disgusting on its on merits, but in telecommunications "tapping" has a different connotation.

It's disgusting but it's all part of the Patriot Act which a mostly bi-partisaned House and Senate passed and Bush signed into law. Note that the bulk of "nays" in the House were Democrats as was the lone Senate "nay."
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Yet you read "blame Bush" in there. Srsly??
 
Guess what is listed as the number one trending topic on Yahoo- Pamela Anderson. Amanda Bynes is number two. No mention of this.
 
94Deac said:
The section being used to justify this, however, is from the original version of the act. But just to be clear: point finger at Bush- not okay. Point finger at Obama- okay. #junebuglogic
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1. O's interpretation is aggressive and Holder tried to mislead people about it
2. As I have stated three times now, the Patriot Act doesn't *require* the executive to do this. That choice is 100% Obama's. So yes, your Blame Bush card doesn't work anymore.
 
Junebug said:
1. O's interpretation is aggressive and Holder tried to mislead people about it
2. As I have stated three times now, the Patriot Act doesn't *require* the executive to do this. That choice is 100% Obama's. So yes, your Blame Bush card doesn't work anymore.
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I think I just read that Fienstein just said it was a continuation of something that has been in place for 7 years
 
This practice has been used by several administrations.
 
Find it hard to believe that it would be limited to Verizon users only. Also assume that every phone call to Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, et al is documented and has been for a very long time. Sucks for US citizens who have relatives or legitimate business interests there, but also don't see anyone getting in an uproar about that either.
 
Junebug said:
1. O's interpretation is aggressive and Holder tried to mislead people about it
2. As I have stated three times now, the Patriot Act doesn't *require* the executive to do this. That choice is 100% Obama's. So yes, your Blame Bush card doesn't work anymore.
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Why has it been going on since 2006 then?
 
Junebug said:
1. O's interpretation is aggressive and Holder tried to mislead people about it
2. As I have stated three times now, the Patriot Act doesn't *require* the executive to do this. That choice is 100% Obama's. So yes, your Blame Bush card doesn't work anymore.
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1: Absolutely.
2: No, it doesn't "require" the executive do it. It gives the government the authority to do it. Most laws don't "require" action- only create authority and mechanism for enforcement. You're splitting an irrelevant hair. Again- should Obama or Bush or Abraham Fucking Lincoln be doing this? No. Does the legal authority for them to do it exist? Yes. Does that suck? Yes.
 
94Deac said:
1: Absolutely.
2: No, it doesn't "require" the executive do it. It gives the government the authority to do it. Most laws don't "require" action- only create authority and mechanism for enforcement. You're splitting an irrelevant hair. Again- should Obama or Bush or Abraham Fucking Lincoln be doing this? No. Does the legal authority for them to do it exist? Yes. Does that suck? Yes.
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It's not irrelevant. O could put a stop to this today. If he couldn't, I'd agree that it was Congress's/W's fault. But he can, and he won't.
 
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Junebug said:
1. O's interpretation is aggressive and Holder tried to mislead people about it
2. As I have stated three times now, the Patriot Act doesn't *require* the executive to do this. That choice is 100% Obama's. So yes, your Blame Bush card doesn't work anymore.
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I don't understand why you argue this. The Patriot Act allows it and empowers the Executive to take this action. Most people who have access to power use it, especially Presidents. The Patriot Act is severely flawed, no matter who is President. I agree with those (most people on here) who say both Presidents have stepped in it equally.
 
You can listen to an interview with Glenn Greenwald, the guy who broke the story, here:
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/
Also, this has not been done for only a three month period. They do it every three months. And it's being done to everyone, involving all phone records- not just Verizon customers. Also, it involves emails. Greenwald makes a good point. Let the American people decide if they want this done- let's have the debate openly.
 
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