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Has the Wake basketball program passed rock bottom?

Has Wake basketball passed rock bottom?

  • Total voters
    174
  • Poll closed .
Strickland33 said:
I watched both of those games and getting drilled by Clemson on the road felt worse than getting drilled by Nebraska at home.
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I had Nebraska down as a cupcake win. That one hurt worse.
 
Nebrasketball is 172nd in KP (10-10, 1-6) while Clemson is 67th (10-8, 2-4).

It may have felt worse watching, and it was painful to watch, but the Nebraska game was just awful. Not to mention the Nebraska game was at home.

I'd rank the losses so far like this:

1. Iona
2. Nebraska
3. Clemson
4. Seton Hall
5. Virginia Tech

The others were understandable/played ok basketball.
 
Milhouse said:
#kenpom
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33898083.jpg
 
IrishSlim said:
True, but he goes for it, man. He fucking goes for it. Can't hate him for that. Hate him for other things, but not that. Skip had a similar "shoot for the stars" (I hate that cliche, but it works) philosophy.

Whereas [Redacted]. Fucking [Redacted]. UHH
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I was #gaudioout early on, and for the precise reasons Wellman said so (long before he said so publicly). The job of the coach is to make the team better than when he found it. Gaudio had none of that ability. I am not sure I thought about it consciously in real time, but as far as I can tell the best player Gaudio ever signed to Wake Forest as head coach is Travis McKie. As much as I like C.J., when you don't have to leave Polo Road to make a recruiting visit, it's hard to get credit for selling someone their own hometown.

To date, I remain #goodfirebadhire, but I'm also realistic about where we are today. We're not going to get any more return on anxiety by spinning our wheels about what's not happening between now and April 2014 (or whenever RW is off the big stage). We might as well win as many games as we can and make the most of this gangrenous milkshake. Most people are either #Buzzin or #Buzzout. I don't think beating ACC rivals ("GASP! The horror...") is going to move sides (or even move someone from #Buzzout to #Buzzwaitandsee), nor is it going to change the fact that Buzz is here through the end of RW's tenure on the Selection Committee. I'd like to win as many games as we can between now and then (to at the very least rehab the job for his successor), and if (read: when) it is hasn't worked out, then the Initechnocrats that run Wake Forest will fix the glitch when Wellman retires. If we've learned nothing else in this 30 months, nothing that happens or doesn't happen on the court will change that course of events.
 
I was pleased with the game the other night. Thomas played great, and we executed our offense very well. It was a bad defensive performance as usual, but overall you had to be pleased. Was not impressed with State. I had only seen them against Dick, and didn't realize just how thin they are. State was worse than we were defensively. And they win that game if they don't get in foul trouble on the inside. I think that will be a consistent theme for them this year.

But I got depressed at the end of the game. To the point where it really hit home that I think it's going to be a long time before we have a good team again. Not because of our players but our fans. We rushed the court after beating a top-25 team. If we're this thrilled to beat a top-25 team, it's going to be a long time before we will have legitimately high expectations for our hoops program. I really think LOWF is here to stay.
 
Someone at work made fun of me for the court rushing. My response that "it was our first win over a ranked team since January 2010, our first win over a rival since January 2010, and our first win over NC State since December 2009. If I had been there I would have rushed the court." His response to that, "Well that's a sad reflection on the state of the program."

Yep.
 
Expectations and a dollar fifty will get you a cup of Starbucks. Just because the fans think the team should be good, doesn't make the team good, or even moving in the direction of good.
The hand-wringing over the court storming is misplaced.
 
thedeacfan said:
I voted no. If Buzz is gone after this year, we can debate what was or will be the lowest point of this first three years. But absolute rock bottom will be if the administration allows Buzz to stay. Three more years of knowing that we have this ridiculously sub-standard coach; that would be rock bottom. Condemned to Mediocrity = Rock Bottom
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I agree with this statement based on the following. From the 90/91 season through 05/06 season we made either the NCAA Tourney or NIT every year. Within those years, WFU started with at least 1 NCAA Tourney game in 6 out of 7 years, including 2 Sweet 16's and 1 Elite 8. Also, during the same time period we finished ranked in the Top 25 four times, #16 in 93 #3 in 95 #9 in both 96 and 97. Towards the end of the Odom Era, we at least went to the NIT every year, won at least 1 game, and won the NIT in 99/00. Under Odom, our worst year was 17-14 overall, and he never finished with a conference record lower than 7-9.

Under Skip and before CP3 left 1 year prematurely, for 5 seasons we went to the NCAA Tourney every year and won at least 1 game, including 1 Sweet 16 appearance. Also, Skip never finished with a 9-7 conference record and never below 3rd place, and we finished ranked in the Top 25 4 out of 5 years, #23 in 01, #8 in 03, #17 in 04, and #5 in 05. Granted, Skip's Teams massively underachieved in the both the ACC and NCAA Tournaments, but at least his worst record during this 5 year span was 21-13.

Then, CP3 left a year earlier than expected, and we finished 1 game below .500 for the first time since the 89/90 season. However, we were able to rebuild very quickly, and was back in the NCAA Tourney 2 years later under Dino, including being ranked #1 in the polls during the same season. The following season we were back to winning NCAA Tournament games again, and had a Top 15 recruiting class coming in with 2 talented players returning. Also, we finished ranked #12 in 08 and we were ranked #22 in 09 going into March. Even though there were 2 seasons when we finished at the bottom of the ACC, there was a valid reason and you could tell that this team would be back to a Top 25 Program on a regular basis.

In summary, during 20 seasons before Bz, we went to either the NCAA Tourney or NIT 18 out of 20 seasons and won at least 1 game 14 out of 18 times(If CP3 did not leave 1 year yearly, then I doubt we ever miss the post season), finished ranked in the Top 25 9 times (However, we were ranked in the Top 25 for at least 1 week 16 of 20 seasons), 3 Sweet 16s, 1 Elite 8, 1 NIT Championship, 2 ACC Tournament Titles and 1 Regular Season Outright ACC Title and Tied for 1st in 94/95, had 3 players win ACC Player of the Year (Rogers, Duncan (twice), Howard), etc etc. Also, from 90/91 until 05/06 we had the longest postseason streak of any team in the ACC. Finally, we finished no less than 3rd in the ACC 11 times, and only finished below 4th in the ACC 3 times during this stretch (not counting 05/06 and 06/07) with a conference record of 7-9 each (5th in 99/00 and 00/01 and 7th in 07/08)


Under Bz's first two seasons there have been more players to transfer than ACC Conference wins. He was not just bad, but historically bad, with a 15% conference record and only 1 road win in 2 seasons . Also, iIn 10/11 no other team from a Power Conference finished below us in the Ken Pom rankings at 251, and only 2 teams finished below us in 11/12 at 211, BC and Southern Cal. Granted, he has gotten off to a decent start this season during conference play, but if we did not have CJ, then how many of those games would we have won? Also, we use to always play a tough out of conference schedule every year under Odom, Skip, and Dino playing mid majors such as Gonzaga, Temple, Utah, Xavier, Cincy, etc, and we would also play 2 or 3 teams (outside of the Big 10 ACC Challenge) from other Power Conferences. Now, we have a terrible non conference schedule, and only play a team from a Power Conference because we are forced to along with Xavier. There have been numerous articles written by the national media on both ESPN and CBS.Sportsline describing how fall we have fallen so quickly.

The problem is that I have yet to see any improvement in our players during this tenure. Personally, I believe that coaching in college is a major factor in why teams win. Honestly, why is Duke, Carolina, Syracuse, Kansas, Michigan St, UConn, and Caliperia's teams at Memphis and Kentucky always good when they constantly turn players over? Coaching, coaching is the constant in college basketball that makes teams into programs, and thus competitive. Also, those teams always embody the identity of their coach, and I guarantee you if there was a game were the teams wore no jersey's and one of those coaches had his team at the game, then you would have no problem identifying which coach it was due to the team's style of play

If our measure of success at WFU under BZ is making the NIT every year, or the NCAA every few years, then we will be living at rock bottom until he is gone(I doubt that there could be any coach worse than him). Under Bz do you honestly expect us to be a Top 25 Team 4 out of 5 years? More likely, we would be ranked for at least 1 week in the Top 25 1 out 5 years, if we are lucky. My point is that once we become irrelevant, it will be that much harder to become not only relevant again, but a Top 25 Program. Honestly, I would rather experience the heartbreaking losses in the NCAA Tourney by Oklahoma St in the Sweet 16, Cleveland St in the 1st round, or Standford, Auburn, and West Virgina in the 2nd round of the NCAA Tourney compared to barely making the NCAA Tourney as a 10 seed once in a blue moon. At least then we experienced 4 months of exciting regular season play.
 
mattwfu99 said:
What do people define as mediocrity?

I'll be happy if we make the second round (third round, officially, I guess) of the NCAA tournament three years from now. NCAA tournament and a win there should always be the goal of the program, although I believe goals of individual years can vary based on personnel, if that makes any sense.

If your goal every year, and the way you define success, is to make the final four, there's essentially a 100% chance you'll be disappointed almost every year. That's just the way college basketball is. Doesn't matter if you're a wake fan or a unc fan.

I am not happy with where the program is, but I am relatively pleased with where this team is right now, given its makeup.
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The post-Duncan era was mediocrity. Bubble teams.
 
I've seen improvement from the bottom of the shit hole that is [Redacted]'s program, but we are still within farting distance of it!
 
ABCDeac said:
Rock bottom was first half against Iona, which came on heels of decent showing against UConn. If we are losing 50-3 in our next game, I will be proven wrong and will realize that we are no where near hitting rock bottom.
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i should have said 37-7. would have had the same impact.
 
My bad guys. I really tempted fate with this one.
 
After today's looming debacle in Atlanta why not admit the obvious...The win over NCSU was an Anomaly...NCSU was unmotivated and their play reflected such...Wake was inspired and STOLE a close one...

Still does not change my opine of Bz...He MUST MOVE ON & TAKE WELLHEAD With HIM!!!

Boycott the product withhold the $$$...that is the only way to facilitate change!
 
Is it rock bottom when I've considered putting on Netflix and watching the Golden Girls instead of this shit? Is Golden Girls available on Netflix?
 
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