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Isaac Haas

You think Harrell and Haas have similar games? Really? How about Smotrycz? Is Kadeem Jack at 6'9 230 more comparable to Thomas or Haas? How about the 6'7 240lb Niang?
How about Julian Royal- the guy who averaged 3 a game at GT before transferring?

Egwu and Hammons are the only two guys that you have named that would be a similar player to Haas. Both are averaging around 8 and 6 (as a Jr. and Soph, respectively). And that's the best you could come up with for impact players with those rankings.

Hammons is a projected first round pick.

The reality is that neither of us know what kind of game that Haas has. Your claim that "7-footers ranked in the #77 range of the RSCI aren't good so we shouldn't be upset if we lose one" just kind of rubs me the wrong way.

You recruit guys who are good, and good correlates quite well (remarkably well, but some of y'all are hard to please) with RSCI ranking. Are their games the same? No. But they're big dudes who turned out really well (in the scheme of basketball players - because, let's be real, we would have killed to have senior Tony Woods-type production on our first Buzz teams). Maybe Haas wouldn't be as productive as Harrell or Smotrycz (though I actually think that he would), but there is a TON of talent in #70-#85. That was my point. You should be happy with that range, despite the fact that the Ty Walker experiment ended badly.

I think that Haas would have been a good player for us, a solid starter by year three and an All-ACC-caliber center by his senior year. Kind of like Kyle Visser. I've posted about it in depth a few times and you're welcome to dig the posts up.
 
Sig - you seem to be arguing that a kid ranked 80th who is 6'8" 230 will generally turn out to be a better player than a kid ranked 80th who is 7'1" 270. Is that what you're saying?
 
Hammons is a projected first round pick.

The reality is that neither of us know what kind of game that Haas has. Your claim that "7-footers ranked in the #77 range of the RSCI aren't good so we shouldn't be upset if we lose one" just kind of rubs me the wrong way.

You recruit guys who are good, and good correlates quite well (remarkably well, but some of y'all are hard to please) with RSCI ranking. Are their games the same? No. But they're big dudes who turned out really well (in the scheme of basketball players - because, let's be real, we would have killed to have senior Tony Woods-type production on our first Buzz teams). Maybe Haas wouldn't be as productive as Harrell or Smotrycz (though I actually think that he would), but there is a TON of talent in #70-#85. That was my point. You should be happy with that range, despite the fact that the Ty Walker experiment ended badly.

I think that Haas would have been a good player for us, a solid starter by year three and an All-ACC-caliber center by his senior year. Kind of like Kyle Visser. I've posted about it in depth a few times and you're welcome to dig the posts up.

Hammons has been in Painter's doghouse all season. At times, he's barely played.
 
Haas not telling us he was still talking to other schools speaks as much to the relationship he had with Rusty and Bz as it does to his character.

I understand what you're suggesting but Haas asking about what to expect on the day he signs his LOI with us and then backing out at the last possible moment causes me to give the staff the benefit of the doubt in this case.
 
Is their really anything wrong with what Purdue did? They certainly aren't obligated to tell anyone else who they are recruiting. I think it sucks that Haas didn't mention anything about it, and I think it sucks that the staff (unsurprisingly) couldn't do a better job holding on to him, but I don't think anyone can fault Purdue here.
 
Sig - you seem to be arguing that a kid ranked 80th who is 6'8" 230 will generally turn out to be a better player than a kid ranked 80th who is 7'1" 270. Is that what you're saying?

Probably, but without that fine a point on it. It is hard to be an effective college player (or pro, for that matter) player at 7'1, 270. Most guys that size don't have the athleticism to play effectively. Unless they are a truly gifted post player or defender (in which case, they would be ranked significantly higher), the average guy that size is slow, has a below-average vertical leap, and is behind on stamina. And that doesn't touch on the hand-eye coordination necessary to effectively play college basketball. The same is not necessarily true for the average 6'8 230lb guy.

There are more 6'8, 230 lb prospects out there every year than there are 7'1 270lb guys. That increases the possibility that the average 6'8 230lb guy might have slipped through the cracks or be under-ranked. I think the fact that there are limited numbers of 7'1 270lb guys probably leads to them being overrated.

I think the chances of finding a 6'8 pf/c outside of the top 50 who can be a contributor on a good team is higher than finding a 7 foot plus guy outside of the top 50. I think a 7 footer will be given every chance to shine in high school and on the AAU circuit because coaches and talent evaluators pay more attention to them, which leads to 7 footers generally being ranked higher than they should.
 
Hammons is a projected first round pick.

The reality is that neither of us know what kind of game that Haas has. Your claim that "7-footers ranked in the #77 range of the RSCI aren't good so we shouldn't be upset if we lose one" just kind of rubs me the wrong way.

You recruit guys who are good, and good correlates quite well (remarkably well, but some of y'all are hard to please) with RSCI ranking. Are their games the same? No. But they're big dudes who turned out really well (in the scheme of basketball players - because, let's be real, we would have killed to have senior Tony Woods-type production on our first Buzz teams). Maybe Haas wouldn't be as productive as Harrell or Smotrycz (though I actually think that he would), but there is a TON of talent in #70-#85. That was my point. You should be happy with that range, despite the fact that the Ty Walker experiment ended badly.

I think that Haas would have been a good player for us, a solid starter by year three and an All-ACC-caliber center by his senior year. Kind of like Kyle Visser. I've posted about it in depth a few times and you're welcome to dig the posts up.

this may be a haas but its still really funny.
 
Makes sense, and I think you're probably right. I'd guess that the average numbers are probably about the same, but the extremes are much farther apart for freaks like Haas. Much bigger gamble.

Wonder if he had people telling him he was much, much better than he is. Going to Purdue where he'll struggle to get any playing time at all for probably multiple years behind Hammons and Simpson. At Wake there's essentially an open starting spot at the 5.

Watch him spend a year on the bench at Purdue and then transfer...
 
Hammons is a projected first round pick.

The reality is that neither of us know what kind of game that Haas has. Your claim that "7-footers ranked in the #77 range of the RSCI aren't good so we shouldn't be upset if we lose one" just kind of rubs me the wrong way.

You recruit guys who are good, and good correlates quite well (remarkably well, but some of y'all are hard to please) with RSCI ranking. Are their games the same? No. But they're big dudes who turned out really well (in the scheme of basketball players - because, let's be real, we would have killed to have senior Tony Woods-type production on our first Buzz teams). Maybe Haas wouldn't be as productive as Harrell or Smotrycz (though I actually think that he would), but there is a TON of talent in #70-#85. That was my point. You should be happy with that range, despite the fact that the Ty Walker experiment ended badly.

I think that Haas would have been a good player for us, a solid starter by year three and an All-ACC-caliber center by his senior year. Kind of like Kyle Visser. I've posted about it in depth a few times and you're welcome to dig the posts up.

I wouldn't argue too much with a projection of a Visser-type career. But Visser had 1 good year at Wake (on a terrible team, no less). He couldn't beat out Eric Williams and couldn't play on the court with him at the same time.

If you think Haas would have the impact that a guy projected to be lottery pick (like Harrell) would, then we will just agree to disagree.

And I'll say this, I would have been much more upset had we lost Devin Thomas 2 years ago than I would losing Haas, even though their recruiting rankings were different. You-tube scouting or not, you could watch both guys run up and down the court and make a pretty decent guess at who could be an effective big in college and who couldn't.

Finally, I believe in recruiting rankings, inasmuch as I would rather have 13 top-50 guys on my team than 13 top-150 guys. But I also don't get excited merely because we signed a guy ranked in the fucking 70s of his class. Especially one who's profile is of the type that generally gets over-ranked.
 
I wouldn't argue too much with a projection of a Visser-type career. But Visser had 1 good year at Wake (on a terrible team, no less). He couldn't beat out Eric Williams and couldn't play on the court with him at the same time.

If you think Haas would have the impact that a guy projected to be lottery pick (like Harrell) would, then we will just agree to disagree.

And I'll say this, I would have been much more upset had we lost Devin Thomas 2 years ago than I would losing Haas, even though their recruiting rankings were different. You-tube scouting or not, you could watch both guys run up and down the court and make a pretty decent guess at who could be an effective big in college and who couldn't.

Finally, I believe in recruiting rankings, inasmuch as I would rather have 13 top-50 guys on my team than 13 top-150 guys. But I also don't get excited merely because we signed a guy ranked in the fucking 70s of his class. Especially one who's profile is of the type that generally gets over-ranked.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. This makes sense and is a bit different than the sour grapes stuff that followed your post. For one, we didn't know we were signing Rondale when we signed Isaac. The scholarship was, then, still available at the time of the signing and so there was no choice between Isaac and another player in 2015. Additionally, the 50/50 hindsight is troubling because the read was that Isaac was a smart kid, a churchgoer, and with excellent character. In typical Wake culture club-fashion, now he's an asshole who is better off not at Wake. And we still have no idea what went down. If the kid got cold feet because negative recruiting was pointing out that the staff would be gone by next year, then you can hardly blame that on Isaac. The accounts provided by insiders on this board have leaned heavily in that direction, IMO. It sucks he passed us up and misled the fans, but I find it hard to absolve the staff of being woefully incompetent in missing the signs (and failing to follow up like they actually gave a shit). Others have spoken to this more articulately on this thread, so I'll leave it there.

That said (and thanks for clarifying), you're right in a lot of ways. Visibility means that all 7'0+ players are likely to be seen more (and that there are more 6'8 PFs is undeniable), so a lower ranking means that they may be overrated relative to their position. That said, I think you might be underrating the role of coaching staffs in this. The reason why Hibbert and Dieng got better was that they were developed by top-notch coaching staffs, in addition to the fact that they were hard workers.

I still think you're scoffing a bit hard at the correlation between RSCI Top-100 ranking of our past signees and program impact. Typically, the better ranking, the more helpful (with a few notable exceptions), which makes me think that Isaac is a better bet than Andre and Daniel, in terms of traditional back-to-the-basket big. (FWIW, too, Viss was ranked far lower than Haas, so my projection might have underrated him a bit.) Seeing as we've got nothing in the tank, now, until 2015-2016-earliest, I think it's a bit of a risk, not so easily written off when we lose a top-100 big.
 
I believe DeaconKing was told this story from an insider. I believe it is predominantly accurate, but to believe there is no spin is naive.
 
I wouldn't argue too much with a projection of a Visser-type career. But Visser had 1 good year at Wake (on a terrible team, no less). He couldn't beat out Eric Williams and couldn't play on the court with him at the same time.

If you think Haas would have the impact that a guy projected to be lottery pick (like Harrell) would, then we will just agree to disagree.

And I'll say this, I would have been much more upset had we lost Devin Thomas 2 years ago than I would losing Haas, even though their recruiting rankings were different. You-tube scouting or not, you could watch both guys run up and down the court and make a pretty decent guess at who could be an effective big in college and who couldn't.

Finally, I believe in recruiting rankings, inasmuch as I would rather have 13 top-50 guys on my team than 13 top-150 guys. But I also don't get excited merely because we signed a guy ranked in the fucking 70s of his class. Especially one who's profile is of the type that generally gets over-ranked.

Prosser wasted Visser. He could run and block shots- but not while sitting beside Prosser. Recall the St Joes game, when they were posting up our guards until Visser got in the game and blocked some shots. We had the lead until Williams got back in the game. He blocked about 4 shots in his career.
 
Kevin Swinton - that guy was amazingly overrated by the recruiting gurus. I can't think of a more disappointing recruit since I started following Wake basketball during the Staak years. I'm probably forgetting someone (maybe the kid who broke Laettner's HS scoring record).

Bobby Fitzgibbons. Lives in Mt Airy now.
 
Purdue is a very good engineering school( ranked #8) but the school has 40k students and is ranked #65 overall( US News). So I don't get the comments made by their students about WFU. Plus, what is the closest mountain range or beach to West Lafayette, Ind? Haas sucks. Nobody has ever done this to the WFU basketball program . This is a first to my knowledge.
 
I'm rooting for us to play Purdue in the ACC-B1G challenge at home next year so we fans can "express our displeasure" regarding Haas.
 
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