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MTOW: A Sales Pitch No One is Buying

jaybone said:
Yeah, but it was fucking stupid. He HAS both worked hard for something and seems pretty far from an egotist, considering he handed out towels at Kansas for a few years to break into coaching. Someone please quote me so Bud can read this. He has to have me on ignore because I call out his stupid fucking posts all the time.

He is the only guy I can't stop attacking. Again, because his posts are so fucking stupid. To call a man who worked his ass off to lead a team to a national championship as a player, a man who flies all over to have kids see him watching them play basketball in the hopes that they will come to Wake - call him many things - a shitty coach perhaps, a dolt of a personality, but to accuse him of not working hard for anything in his life is just about the stupidest thing I've seen Bud post, and considering he posts stupid shit all the time - that is saying something. It's like calling out a Trump tweet as stupid. But anyway, someone quote me so this dumbshit can see it, or someone just reword what I typed in a nicer way.

Again, to call out an ex-athlete as someone who has never worked hard for anything - I guess i don't get why you would ever watch sports then if you think these guys are just dancing around in shorts a few hours a week on tv and maybe do a few pushups when they wake up in the morning. What the fuck this guy ...
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Bud's point, I thought, was that Manning was so incredibly talented that he didn't have to "work hard" to be as good as he was. And that's a valid point applicable to many Pro Stars who come back to coach college kids. You should try to look for different viewpoints besides your own sometimes.
 
Lohengrin said:
Bud's point, I thought, was that Manning was so incredibly talented that he didn't have to "work hard" to be as good as he was. And that's a valid point applicable to many Pro Stars who come back to coach college kids. You should try to look for different viewpoints besides your own sometimes.
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It’s still inaccurate. Manning was very talented, then had an injury-filled professional career in which he had to put a ton more effort into studying the game, studying his opponents, and perfecting technical basketball moves. It was just a lazy take that’s not true.
 
sailordeac said:
For all I can tell, Danny Manning is a decent guy but does not have the necessary abilities to be an ACC head coach. His deficiencies include, average recruiting, poor in game coaching, uninspiring personality, and inability to mentor the players, to be their father figure for whom they want to play.
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Manning certainly has his deficiencies, and I think he should (rightfully) be out of a job next offseason, but I'm not sure the above two are fully accurate.

1) His average recruiting classes place him 6th in the ACC. That's above programs like Miami, NC State, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame, and Virginia. He does seem to strike out on high-profile names quite a bit, but our overall classes have generally been pretty solid. Getting those players to stay at Wake has been a problem, but getting them in the door is not. The 6th-best talent should be good enough to be an NCAAT lock nearly every year. He may not be the best at "building a roster", but I consider that separate from recruiting ability (one is strategy, another is execution. He's been able to execute pretty well, but the strategy hasn't been great).

2) Not sure exactly what you mean by mentoring players, but players have developed quite a bit at Wake. It's hard to overlook the dramatic improvements of Collins, Moore, and Dino. You can argue that other players have flatlined - like Crawford - but that happens at every program. It is less common to see the jump that Collins/Moore made.

I do agree that he is a piss poor in-game coach, which overshadows most of his decent qualities and nullifies many of the recruiting and development benefits that he's exprienced.
 
Lohengrin said:
Bud's point, I thought, was that Manning was so incredibly talented that he didn't have to "work hard" to be as good as he was. And that's a valid point applicable to many Pro Stars who come back to coach college kids. You should try to look for different viewpoints besides your own sometimes.
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Oh I do. All the time. More so than most on here. And since I spend 99% of my time "off-site" - there too.

But here is what dumbshit wrote: Manning is an egotist and has never had to work for anything.

Your interpretation is giving IdiotPoster a whole lot of rope he doesn't deserve. And it is inaccurate. And false. We can't simply make up narratives untethered to any reality. Yet AsshatatWake does so time and time again.

Since you are defending him and you ARE tethered to reality so far as I can tell, certainly as compared to OldFuddyDuddy - explain to me in what narrative that Manning never had to work hard for anything. While you are at it, site some example based on fact and/or reality that leads us to believe he is an egotist. If you can, also add historical context that takes into account our current political and social reality dealing with a real life egotist as President.

For my argument, I cited the fact that Manning took a job handing at towels at Kansas for two years in order to break into college coaching. Childress didn't do this when he joined the Bzd staff. Childress was a cockier player IMO than Manning ever was. But it was Manning who won player of the year (like Duncan) and won a national championship. Most people in describing Tim Duncan would probably go the opposite of egotist. I'll use the word "humble" Which word best describes Manning? Egotist or humble? The only word that DependsatWake used that I think I could get behind is stubborn.

Your turn. Go.
 
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BudatWake said:
RJ read before you post. My post was not about basketball it was about the man who is our head coach.
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You're so right. EVERY 6'10 HS kid becomes the #1 player in the country without doing any work. It's just handed to him. No one else wants that position. No one else tries. Danny obviously didn't have to work to get there.

The same is true about his college play. He just rolled out of bed, put his gear on and everyone else just deferred to his greatness. He didn't have to work or think or so anything. It was just handed to him.

In the NBA, everyone just got out of his way to let him be an all-star and 6th Man of the Year. He didn't have to work at all to come back from what many considered career ending injuries. Plus, every star who gets hurt easily, gracefully and readily accepts whatever role he is given (after all everything was given/handed) to Danny.

When he wanted to become a coach, he took the lowest pay, lowest influence job on the staff, because he knew everything else would be handed to him. He didn't really work his way up step-by-step on a national championship staff over a period of years. It was given to him.

He was handed a job at a mid-major not because he paid his dues, but because it was granted by the basketball gods.

By doing well there, he got a P6 HC job. Again, according to Bud the decade of taking each step to get there didn't happen. Bud said Danny didn't do any work or pay any dues.
 
RJKarl said:
You're so right. EVERY 6'10 HS kid becomes the #1 player in the country without doing any work. It's just handed to him. No one else wants that position. No one else tries. Danny obviously didn't have to work to get there.

The same is true about his college play. He just rolled out of bed, put his gear on and everyone else just deferred to his greatness. He didn't have to work or think or so anything. It was just handed to him.

In the NBA, everyone just got out of his way to let him be an all-star and 6th Man of the Year. He didn't have to work at all to come back from what many considered career ending injuries. Plus, every star who gets hurt easily, gracefully and readily accepts whatever role he is given (after all everything was given/handed) to Danny.

When he wanted to become a coach, he took the lowest pay, lowest influence job on the staff, because he knew everything else would be handed to him. He didn't really work his way up step-by-step on a national championship staff over a period of years. It was given to him.

He was handed a job at a mid-major not because he paid his dues, but because it was granted by the basketball gods.

By doing well there, he got a P6 HC job. Again, according to Bud the decade of taking each step to get there didn't happen. Bud said Danny didn't do any work or pay any dues.
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What RJ said ... wait, I said it better. Nevermind. Delete post.
 
for those of you getting so worked up you need a shower, don't forget to use @DoveMenCare to keep your skin looking young and fresh
 
There are so many legit criticisms of Manning just not sure why anyone would try to go with the "he doesn't work hard" one. Doesn't fit given his background as a player and as an assistant coach; calling Manning a slacker seems far off the mark.

This is an example of where this board often goes off track. A large segment of people that post here are completely unable to separate criticizing a coach or player for their performance from criticizing a coach's or player's character (WF22's ridiculous attacks on CMM come to mind; yes, he had disappointing finish to his college career; yes, he regressed over his four years at WF; doesn't mean that he is lazy, selfish, stupid or otherwise a bad person). The need to destroy good people for performance failure is beyond me. There is always something noble about effort even in failure. I don't doubt that Manning is trying; so far, it's just not working.

Manning failed as WF's basketball coach in 2017-8. The results told the story. These piss-poor results don't mean that Manning is not a good man, smart or a hard worker. Just means that it's increasingly looking like he is not suited to coach WF basketball. Going off on tangents that personally attack Manning only serve to dilute the legitimate criticisms of Manning's performance. These attacks reflect poorly on those that feel the need to make it personal when it does not need to be.

Look at Jim Caldwell. His results at WF (particularly compared to Grobe right after him) show that he was simply NOT suited to succeed as WF's football coach. Caldwell then went to the NFL and took the Colts to the Super Bowl, and a woeful Lions franchise to the playoffs. He was the OC/QB Coach of the Ravens when they won a Super Bowl; and the QB coach for the Indy Super Bowl and multiple playoff runs. All that doesn't happen by coincidence. Jim Caldwell is good man and a good coach; just not at WF. Same may be true for Danny Manning.
 
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Pilchard said:
There are so many legit criticisms of Manning just not sure why anyone would try to go with the "he doesn't work hard" one. Doesn't fit given his background as a player and as an assistant coach; calling Manning a slacker seems far off the mark.

This is an example of where this board often goes off track. A large segment of people that post here are completely unable to separate criticizing a coach or player for their performance from criticizing a coach's or player's character (WF22's ridiculous attacks on CMM come to mind; yes, he had disappointing finish to his college career; yes, he regressed over his four years at WF; doesn't mean that he is lazy, selfish, stupid or otherwise a bad person). The need to destroy good people for performance failure is beyond me. There is always something noble about effort even in failure. I don't doubt that Manning is trying; so far, it's just not working.

Manning failed as WF's basketball coach in 2017-8. The results told the story. These piss-poor results don't mean that Manning is not a good man, smart or a hard worker. Just means that it's increasingly looking like he is not suited to coach WF basketball. Going off on tangents that personally attack Manning only serve to dilute the legitimate criticisms of Manning's performance. Reflect poorly on those that feel the need to make it personal when it does not need to be.

Look at Jim Caldwell. His results at WF (particularly compared to Grobe right after him) show that he was simply NOT suited to succeed as WF's football coach. Caldwell then went to the NFL and took the Colts to the Super Bowl, and a woeful Lions franchise to the playoffs. He was the OC/QB Coach of the Ravens when the won a Super Bowl; and the QB coach for Indy Superbowl. Jim Caldwell is good man and a good coach; just not at WF. Same may be true for Danny Manning.
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Good perspective and post.
 
Pilchard said:
There are so many legit criticisms of Manning just not sure why anyone would try to go with the "he doesn't work hard" one. Doesn't fit given his background as a player and as an assistant coach; calling Manning a slacker seems far off the mark.

This is an example of where this board often goes off track. A large segment of people that post here are completely unable to separate criticizing a coach or player for their performance from criticizing a coach's or player's character (WF22's ridiculous attacks on CMM come to mind; yes, he had disappointing finish to his college career; yes, he regressed over his four years at WF; doesn't mean that he is lazy, selfish, stupid or otherwise a bad person). The need to destroy good people for performance failure is beyond me. There is always something noble about effort even in failure. I don't doubt that Manning is trying; so far, it's just not working.

Manning failed as WF's basketball coach in 2017-8. The results told the story. These piss-poor results don't mean that Manning is not a good man, smart or a hard worker. Just means that it's increasingly looking like he is not suited to coach WF basketball. Going off on tangents that personally attack Manning only serve to dilute the legitimate criticisms of Manning's performance. These attacks reflect poorly on those that feel the need to make it personal when it does not need to be.

Look at Jim Caldwell. His results at WF (particularly compared to Grobe right after him) show that he was simply NOT suited to succeed as WF's football coach. Caldwell then went to the NFL and took the Colts to the Super Bowl, and a woeful Lions franchise to the playoffs. He was the OC/QB Coach of the Ravens when the won a Super Bowl; and the QB coach for the Indy Super Bowl and multiple playoff runs. Jim Caldwell is good man and a good coach; just not at WF. Same may be true for Danny Manning.
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+1
 
Just saw a preseason poll on ESPN that had VT ranked 14...I believe Buzz and Manning started the same year but could be wrong. Buzz and VT is an example of the right coach building a plan and strategy that’s shows progress and is sustainable
 
Pilchard said:
There are so many legit criticisms of Manning just not sure why anyone would try to go with the "he doesn't work hard" one. Doesn't fit given his background as a player and as an assistant coach; calling Manning a slacker seems far off the mark.

This is an example of where this board often goes off track. A large segment of people that post here are completely unable to separate criticizing a coach or player for their performance from criticizing a coach's or player's character (WF22's ridiculous attacks on CMM come to mind; yes, he had disappointing finish to his college career; yes, he regressed over his four years at WF; doesn't mean that he is lazy, selfish, stupid or otherwise a bad person). The need to destroy good people for performance failure is beyond me. There is always something noble about effort even in failure. I don't doubt that Manning is trying; so far, it's just not working.

Manning failed as WF's basketball coach in 2017-8. The results told the story. These piss-poor results don't mean that Manning is not a good man, smart or a hard worker. Just means that it's increasingly looking like he is not suited to coach WF basketball. Going off on tangents that personally attack Manning only serve to dilute the legitimate criticisms of Manning's performance. These attacks reflect poorly on those that feel the need to make it personal when it does not need to be.

Look at Jim Caldwell. His results at WF (particularly compared to Grobe right after him) show that he was simply NOT suited to succeed as WF's football coach. Caldwell then went to the NFL and took the Colts to the Super Bowl, and a woeful Lions franchise to the playoffs. He was the OC/QB Coach of the Ravens when they won a Super Bowl; and the QB coach for the Indy Super Bowl and multiple playoff runs. All that doesn't happen by coincidence. Jim Caldwell is good man and a good coach; just not at WF. Same may be true for Danny Manning.
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Pretty simple when you live in a nation/culture where we equate success with character.
 
Pilchard said:
There are so many legit criticisms of Manning just not sure why anyone would try to go with the "he doesn't work hard" one. Doesn't fit given his background as a player and as an assistant coach; calling Manning a slacker seems far off the mark.

This is an example of where this board often goes off track. A large segment of people that post here are completely unable to separate criticizing a coach or player for their performance from criticizing a coach's or player's character (WF22's ridiculous attacks on CMM come to mind; yes, he had disappointing finish to his college career; yes, he regressed over his four years at WF; doesn't mean that he is lazy, selfish, stupid or otherwise a bad person). The need to destroy good people for performance failure is beyond me. There is always something noble about effort even in failure. I don't doubt that Manning is trying; so far, it's just not working.

Manning failed as WF's basketball coach in 2017-8. The results told the story. These piss-poor results don't mean that Manning is not a good man, smart or a hard worker. Just means that it's increasingly looking like he is not suited to coach WF basketball. Going off on tangents that personally attack Manning only serve to dilute the legitimate criticisms of Manning's performance. These attacks reflect poorly on those that feel the need to make it personal when it does not need to be.

Look at Jim Caldwell. His results at WF (particularly compared to Grobe right after him) show that he was simply NOT suited to succeed as WF's football coach. Caldwell then went to the NFL and took the Colts to the Super Bowl, and a woeful Lions franchise to the playoffs. He was the OC/QB Coach of the Ravens when they won a Super Bowl; and the QB coach for the Indy Super Bowl and multiple playoff runs. All that doesn't happen by coincidence. Jim Caldwell is good man and a good coach; just not at WF. Same may be true for Danny Manning.
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As reasoned a response I've seen in these here parts for quite some time.
 
All...Danny Manning is a great, stand up guy much like Jim Caldwell. This isn’t personal...it’s about our shit show basketball program. Danny Manning will be fine...I’m more concerned with when change happens. Like many I believe this is his last year and I’m not sure when I’ve ever been so excited about the search for our new coach 10 months before it even starts.
 
Lohengrin said:
Bud's point, I thought, was that Manning was so incredibly talented that he didn't have to "work hard" to be as good as he was. And that's a valid point applicable to many Pro Stars who come back to coach college kids. You should try to look for different viewpoints besides your own sometimes.
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LOL, if you think a guy gets drafted number one overall and has a 10+ year pro career, and didn't work his ass off for it. They're hottakes and then there is #NOTSAT.
 
Pilchard said:
There are so many legit criticisms of Manning just not sure why anyone would try to go with the "he doesn't work hard" one. Doesn't fit given his background as a player and as an assistant coach; calling Manning a slacker seems far off the mark.

This is an example of where this board often goes off track. A large segment of people that post here are completely unable to separate criticizing a coach or player for their performance from criticizing a coach's or player's character (WF22's ridiculous attacks on CMM come to mind; yes, he had disappointing finish to his college career; yes, he regressed over his four years at WF; doesn't mean that he is lazy, selfish, stupid or otherwise a bad person). The need to destroy good people for performance failure is beyond me. There is always something noble about effort even in failure. I don't doubt that Manning is trying; so far, it's just not working.

Manning failed as WF's basketball coach in 2017-8. The results told the story. These piss-poor results don't mean that Manning is not a good man, smart or a hard worker. Just means that it's increasingly looking like he is not suited to coach WF basketball. Going off on tangents that personally attack Manning only serve to dilute the legitimate criticisms of Manning's performance. These attacks reflect poorly on those that feel the need to make it personal when it does not need to be.

Look at Jim Caldwell. His results at WF (particularly compared to Grobe right after him) show that he was simply NOT suited to succeed as WF's football coach. Caldwell then went to the NFL and took the Colts to the Super Bowl, and a woeful Lions franchise to the playoffs. He was the OC/QB Coach of the Ravens when they won a Super Bowl; and the QB coach for the Indy Super Bowl and multiple playoff runs. All that doesn't happen by coincidence. Jim Caldwell is good man and a good coach; just not at WF. Same may be true for Danny Manning.
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I never attacked CMM as a person and my criticism during his last 2 years, while over the top, was based on his regression as a player (shooting) and my frustration with losing so much during the Bzz era and Manning’s first year. Is CMM playing in Europe btw? How about Thomas?
 
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