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MTOW: A Sales Pitch No One is Buying

CMM plays in the top league in Russia. Devin plays in the top league in Spain.
 
I just hope everyone realizes that Danny will not be fired by RW. We won't be getting a new bball coach until Ron retires.
 
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I respectively disagree. If this goes bad and crowds at the Joel are 5K and less plus a second home game for Duke and State even Ron wont be able to save Danny.
 
The "he's lazy" idea is ridiculous."

I focused on the "egotist" complaint more. There is something to that. He seems to have little interest in being forthright with reporters as if answerering their questions was beneath him. He also exhibits the same, much discussed and maligned, coaching deficiencies he showed up 4 seasons ago with. It's as if he knows the way to do things and can't recognize his way is failing and he's too proud to change.
 
Shake said:
I respectively disagree. If this goes bad and crowds at the Joel are 5K and less plus a second home game for Duke and State even Ron wont be able to save Danny.
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wanna bet? RChill might get lonely next year
 
Shake said:
I respectively disagree. If this goes bad and crowds at the Joel are 5K and less plus a second home game for Duke and State even Ron wont be able to save Danny.
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I really believe if it gets bad enough (or honestly whatever happens), Ron is retiring soon. This isn't based in fact and I won't play it off as such, but a vague comment from someone has me believing Ron will end up retiring sometime "relatively" soon.
 
"Wake fans need to be prepared for the reality of Manning continuing to coach at Wake in 2019 and beyond"

Then Hatch and RW must be glad to know the Joel will be a graveyard for years to come as well.
 
saltydeac said:
"Wake fans need to be prepared for the reality of Manning continuing to coach at Wake in 2019 and beyond"

Then Hatch and RW must be glad to know the Joel will be a graveyard for years to come as well.
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Less noise to bother them while they entertain and glad-hand in the suite.
 
jaybone said:
Oh I do. All the time. More so than most on here. And since I spend 99% of my time "off-site" - there too.

But here is what dumbshit wrote: Manning is an egotist and has never had to work for anything.

Your interpretation is giving IdiotPoster a whole lot of rope he doesn't deserve. And it is inaccurate. And false. We can't simply make up narratives untethered to any reality. Yet AsshatatWake does so time and time again.

Since you are defending him and you ARE tethered to reality so far as I can tell, certainly as compared to OldFuddyDuddy - explain to me in what narrative that Manning never had to work hard for anything. While you are at it, site some example based on fact and/or reality that leads us to believe he is an egotist. If you can, also add historical context that takes into account our current political and social reality dealing with a real life egotist as President.

For my argument, I cited the fact that Manning took a job handing at towels at Kansas for two years in order to break into college coaching. Childress didn't do this when he joined the Bzd staff. Childress was a cockier player IMO than Manning ever was. But it was Manning who won player of the year (like Duncan) and won a national championship. Most people in describing Tim Duncan would probably go the opposite of egotist. I'll use the word "humble" Which word best describes Manning? Egotist or humble? The only word that DependsatWake used that I think I could get behind is stubborn.

Your turn. Go.
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I can only tell you what I thought when I read Bud's post. I'm not sure why anyone would read something in a way that doesn't make sense just to discredit the author. That's ambiguity construction 101. A lot of people here think differently from me though, so anything is possible.
 
Pilchard said:
There are so many legit criticisms of Manning just not sure why anyone would try to go with the "he doesn't work hard" one. Doesn't fit given his background as a player and as an assistant coach; calling Manning a slacker seems far off the mark.

This is an example of where this board often goes off track. A large segment of people that post here are completely unable to separate criticizing a coach or player for their performance from criticizing a coach's or player's character (WF22's ridiculous attacks on CMM come to mind; yes, he had disappointing finish to his college career; yes, he regressed over his four years at WF; doesn't mean that he is lazy, selfish, stupid or otherwise a bad person). The need to destroy good people for performance failure is beyond me. There is always something noble about effort even in failure. I don't doubt that Manning is trying; so far, it's just not working.

Manning failed as WF's basketball coach in 2017-8. The results told the story. These piss-poor results don't mean that Manning is not a good man, smart or a hard worker. Just means that it's increasingly looking like he is not suited to coach WF basketball. Going off on tangents that personally attack Manning only serve to dilute the legitimate criticisms of Manning's performance. These attacks reflect poorly on those that feel the need to make it personal when it does not need to be.

Look at Jim Caldwell. His results at WF (particularly compared to Grobe right after him) show that he was simply NOT suited to succeed as WF's football coach. Caldwell then went to the NFL and took the Colts to the Super Bowl, and a woeful Lions franchise to the playoffs. He was the OC/QB Coach of the Ravens when they won a Super Bowl; and the QB coach for the Indy Super Bowl and multiple playoff runs. All that doesn't happen by coincidence. Jim Caldwell is good man and a good coach; just not at WF. Same may be true for Danny Manning.
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Some coaches do not do well at the college level but do at the professional level for various reasons. There is not necessarily any "hidden talent" in guys that don't succeed in college coaching but do in the pros. Caldwell and Buzzdick are two examples who most likely still can't succeed in college. And it may work vice versa too. Maybe with a guy like Petrino. Or to some degree Harbaugh. But I'd like to know of a top pro basketball player who took college jobs and made it to the pinnacle of success. Gotta be few and far between if any.
 
DM isn’t lazy but he’s set for life with his NBA money. He’s not as motivated and driven as Pat Kelsey, for instance. Or Dave Clawson. My impression of them is that they never sleep. And they are much better than DM in many other respects as well.
 
Fred Hoiberg had a 10 year NBA career, and then had a successful run as coach at Iowa State (including the Big 12 COY). He wasn't a "top pro player", but made enough in the NBA to not need to coach in college (or the NBA). That said, Manning had a significantly better (and was paid far more) pro career than Hoiberg.

Larry Brown was an all-star in the ABA (won the MVP in the ABA all-star game), and is 7th all-time on the ABA assist list. He has won a NCAA NC and NBA title as a coach.

Avery Johnson had a 16 year NBA career (the Spurs retired his number); he was the NBA COY, and took the Mavs to the NBA Championship series; he has been moderately successful at Bama (took them to the NCAA this year, and they won a game).

We will see how Penny Hardaway does at Memphis.

Really hard to generalize. Think its possible for a solid NBA player to be successful college coach (e.g., think Steve Kerr or Nate McMillan, 12 year NBA career) to be a successful college coach. Each case is different.
 
Pilchard said:
Fred Hoiberg had a 10 year NBA career, and then had a successful run as coach at Iowa State (including the Big 12 COY). He wasn't a "top pro player", but made enough in the NBA to not need to coach in college (or the NBA). That said, Manning had a significantly better (and was paid far more) pro career than Hoiberg.

Larry Brown was an all-star in the ABA (won the MVP in the ABA all-star game), and is 7th all-time on the ABA assist list. He has won a NCAA NC and NBA title as a coach.

Avery Johnson had a 16 year NBA career (the Spurs retired his number); he was the NBA COY, and took the Mavs to the NBA Championship series; he has been moderately successful at Bama (took them to the NCAA this year, and they won a game).

We will see how Penny Hardaway does at Memphis.

Really hard to generalize. Think its possible for a solid NBA player to be successful college coach (e.g., think Steve Kerr or Nate McMillan, 12 year NBA career) would be successful college coach. Each case is different.
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Add Tony Bennett to your list.
 
There are coaches from various walks of life who succeed and coaches from various walks of life who fail.
 
PhDeac said:
There are coaches from various walks of life who succeed and coaches from various walks of life who fail.
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Exactly. Too many exceptions to see any pattern with coaches. Steve Spurrier immediately comes to mind. Won the Heisman, won a national championship as a head coach. Many, many other examples.
Joe Gibbs, from Mocksville, NC and couldn't sniff a Heisman award, won Super Bowls.

A big part of coaching is communication and providing a clear direction for the team. I think it's a prime reason Dave Clawson has been successful. He communicates extremely well.
 
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