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No Labels third party ticket

It feels like they are going after the pops of the world who don’t like Trump but would never vote Democrat. But their calculus is that those folks are voting for Democrats rather than sitting out elections.
 
BarcaDeac said:
pretty good for raising your profile
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pretty devastating flaw for a liberal party that any incumbent member who decides to move 10% to the right on policy suddenly has 100% more leverage and the attention of the whole country.
 
PhDeac said:
But they're so bad at it. The whole effort seems comprised of irrelevant conservative olds. The approach is based on an outdated view of politics that may have never been accurate.
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I don't disagree, although we still have yet to see what candidate(s) they come up with who are willing to run. A good deal of our politicians these days are out of touch and living in the past, and this group doesn't seem much different so far. Hopefully their ineptitude and irrelevance continues right through the election campaign next year.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
It feels like they are going after the pops of the world who don’t like Trump but would never vote Democrat. But their calculus is that those folks are voting for Democrats rather than sitting out elections.
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The “I’m socially liberal but fiscally conservative” party
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
pretty devastating flaw for a liberal party that any incumbent member who decides to move 10% to the right on policy suddenly has 100% more leverage and the attention of the whole country.
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Seems like a "flaw" of a system that requires a majority vote. The same applies to Murkowski, Collins, and Romney when the Republicans run the Senate.

BarcaDeac said:
The “I’m socially liberal but fiscally conservative” party
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Which is a dominant narrative but a very small group of people.
 
PhDeac said:
Seems like a "flaw" of a system that requires a majority vote. The same applies to Murkowski, Collins, and Romney when the Republicans run the Senate.


Which is a dominant narrative but a very small group of people.
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I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed any of those Republicans seriously leveraging their political affiliation to the extent that Manchin, Sinema, Lieberman have, but I’m open to being enlightened.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed any of those Republicans seriously leveraging their political affiliation to the extent that Manchin, Sinema, Lieberman have, but I’m open to being enlightened.
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i haven't either

they're pretty proudly republican, but the party has drifted too far to the right on social issues for their tastes
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed any of those Republicans seriously leveraging their political affiliation to the extent that Manchin, Sinema, Lieberman have, but I’m open to being enlightened.
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I'm not sure I can argue that they use leverage the same way Manchin and Sinema do but that's because I pay more attention to the internal workings of the Democrats. Murkowski, Collins, Romney, and McCain before them leveraged their votes for their own reputation and priorities.
 
Strickland33 said:
i haven't either

they're pretty proudly republican, but the party has drifted too far to the right on social issues for their tastes
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Manchin could say the same about Democrats. Sinema changed more than anybody else we've mentioned here.

My point is that a 50th vote will always have leverage. And in the current polarized political environment, policy is written from the middle of the parties out instead of the middle of the electorate.
 
PhDeac said:
Manchin could say the same about Democrats. Sinema changed more than anybody else we've mentioned here.

My point is that a 50th vote will always have leverage. And in the current polarized political environment, policy is written from the middle of the parties out instead of the middle of the electorate.
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if it was a republican, though, you'd never hear about it

i think that's mdmh's point

dems hold the party hostage by whining to the press when party leadership ignores them; pubs conduct their business behind closed doors and come out in support of the party line
 
Ok. But what is the flaw? That Dems can’t keep Sinema and Manchin in check? Or that a few people babble to the press to keep their centrist cred?

I expect a homogeneous white nationalist party to hold the line better than a multicultural politically diverse party united by relatively few issues.
 
PhDeac said:
Ok. But what is the flaw? That Dems can’t keep Sinema and Manchin in check? Or that a few people babble to the press to keep their centrist cred?
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Institutionally-speaking, Dems are scared of their own shadows, so I think they let people like Sinema and Manchin take the spotlight in a way that you almost never see from the GOP. Those clowns hijacking the IRA was just pathetic to watch, even as Dems across the spectrum made excuses for their behavior. Even when McCain and Romney have disagreements with the party, those disagreements are oftentimes handled internally.
 
PhDeac said:
united by relatively few issues.
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that’s the flaw. Democratic views are so disparate and broad that it leaves the party extremely vulnerable to the leverage of its most ideologically right members threatening to switch parties. The Republican Party might have malcontents, but they have no one threatening to switch parties.
 
In fact, the Democrats allow themselves to be leveraged by their right flank while demanding voting loyalty from independents on their left.
 
Exactly.

That’s what’s so funny about No Labels. If they spoil the party, then they’ll do by doing exactly what board moderates complained about for a decade (but never actually happened).
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
that’s the flaw. Democratic views are so disparate and broad that it leaves the party extremely vulnerable to the leverage of its most ideologically right members threatening to switch parties. The Republican Party might have malcontents, but they have no one threatening to switch parties.
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The flaw is that Democrats are not homogenous?
 
IamThunderbolt said:
It feels like they are going after the pops of the world who don’t like Trump but would never vote Democrat. But their calculus is that those folks are voting for Democrats rather than sitting out elections.
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Guys, it’s a money grab. These people are trying to wrack up donations from moderately wealthy anti trump conservatives, like my parents. No one is actually trying to win an election or even throw the election to a different candidate, they are trying to buy one more yacht or McMansion before retiring.
 
But we could go round and round in circles about this forever, it’s a dead horse. The point is that the Democratic Party should , strategically, be trying it’s best to discourage any of its members from shifting right to fill the Manchin vacuum. We don’t want or need a Manchin replacement. We should want our right flank to be as powerless and non-threatening as the Republicans left flank.
 
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