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Now her story has changed. Alleged sexual assault thread.

I don't know if the NCAVA will try and paint all male athletes as habitual thugs, I hope not. But I can say from spending plenty of time with male athletes from several sports (baseball, soccer, football, and even track) that there are a LOT of thugs in athletics who would do exactly what is being alleged here and plenty more as habit with women.

A few additional points on that:

1) I don't know if that rate of "thuggish behavior" is any higher or lower than the general male population. The tough thing about sexual assault is that you never really know the totals. You have to estimate and that's a slippery slope.
2) I certainly do not like the idea that every individual is judged by the group, but in general that's how the world works.

All that said, to pre-convict Gary and Jeff based on the actions of a group is equally thuggish.
 
Ball State Deac said:
Oh crap, today isn't Thursday. Well damn, time to head to work.
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Lol I made the same mistake earlier. Watched this horrible abomination for almost a half-hour until I realized today isn't even the fucking day. Wish I had that portion of my life back where I listened to the plight of an egregiously overweight woman who was "admonished" to purchase 2 seats on a plane and then came on the Today Show to bitch about it.
 
These situations are tough to figure out. The truth is somewhere in the middle always and it's tough to figure out who is telling the truth and who isn't. If this happened, I feel beyond bad for the victim and her family. If it didn't, it's unfortunate for Wake Forest but even more unfortunate for victims who have legititmate claims.
 
WhatUTalkinBout Willis said:
I don't know if the NCAVA will try and paint all male athletes as habitual thugs, I hope not. But I can say from spending plenty of time with male athletes from several sports (baseball, soccer, football, and even track) that there are a LOT of thugs in athletics who would do exactly what is being alleged here and plenty more as habit with women.
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i think i'm failing to see where gary acted like a thug in this situation (assuming, of course, that the article that explains the police report is accurate). i mean, yes, it is disrespectful for a guy to be told "no" and yet ask again. but, like awakegirl said, basically every guy will try multiple times, and you just have to be stern and get yourself out of the situation. i mean, i went out of my way to thank a guy one time because he stopped the very first time i said "no." that had never happened to me before. guys are ridiculously persistent.

maybe i'm just seriously lacking compassion. or maybe there's more to the story (like teague was holding the door shut or something). but if she just lacked the courage to say "no" a second time, then i really find it hard to understand how she thought it was alright to call it rape.
 
From all accounts, this was NOT a case of rape. It's very dangerous for the NCAVA to cry rape when it's not clear cut. It just makes people take actual rape allegations less seriously when stuff like this is called rape.
 
KidA23 said:
Lol I made the same mistake earlier. Watched this horrible abomination for almost a half-hour until I realized today isn't even the fucking day. Wish I had that portion of my life back where I listened to the plight of an egregiously overweight woman who was "admonished" to purchase 2 seats on a plane and then came on the Today Show to bitch about it.
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I would expect the interview to go similarly, with lots of:

"Thank you for sharing your story." "We're so sorry this happened to you." "You are so brave to come forward."
 
BeachBumDeac said:
From all accounts, this was NOT a case of rape. It's very dangerous for the NCAVA to cry rape when it's not clear cut. It just makes people take actual rape allegations less seriously when stuff like this is called rape.
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Exactly the point I made a few pages back. Of course, we will have to wait and hear what she says. But from the information we have, it seems to me that her story will need to be different tomorrow to categorize this as rape. We shall see. High profile cases like this that aren't clear cut make it harder for other women to pursue charges in much more provable cases.
 
There have been mixed messages about whether this occurred the night before or the night after the Cleveland State game. ESPN story clearly states it was "only hours before", i.e. 3 or 4 AM on the night before/day of the game. According to the story, the players were supposed to have a 5:30 AM wakeup call. So I guess Teague and Clark got about 1 hour of sleep the night before they were supposed to start a deep run into the NCAA tourney.

Wonder if the rest of the team was up soliciting sex in the wee hours of the morning before getting their ass handed to them by Cleveland freakin' State, or just our key point guard.

Edited: this post is wrong. I am stupid.
 
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Agree the situation seems less bad for the school based upon the W-SJ and ESPN articles. Still, only 2 or 3 people know how things actually happened the night in question, so the rest of us should continue to withhold sweeping, condemnatory, or conclusive judgment, IMO.

I'll offer these thoughts:

1. We're not going to learn "the facts" tomorrow morning. What we will learn is what the girl and her mom have to say.

2. It SEEMS like the school generally did what they should and could to investigate and resolve the concern. Did WF perform perfectly? Probably not, but so far I've seen no credible evidence that they didn't take the situation seriously or handle it wisely. Now, if some evidence surfaces, apart from mere claims, that the school mishandled or mislead the girl or her family, then I'm more that fine with that coming out and WF owning up to and redressing any serious missteps.

3. Whatever happened, the girl in question seemed unhappy about it from fairly early on in the process. It's not like she's just now protesting the events. Still, no report so far (I think) mentions that force was used or that the girl was prevented from leaving at any time. OTOH, if she claims she was coerced, then I guess she probably felt that way.

4. Stupid kids. [Sorry, but it seems likely to me that some pretty poor judgment was used on the part of 1-3 of them. No, that's not shocking or unusual.]
 
Deacon923 said:
There have been mixed messages about whether this occurred the night before or the night after the Cleveland State game. ESPN story clearly states it was "only hours before", i.e. 3 or 4 AM on the night before/day of the game. According to the story, the players were supposed to have a 5:30 AM wakeup call. So I guess Teague and Clark got about 1 hour of sleep the night before they were supposed to start a deep run into the NCAA tourney.

Wonder if the rest of the team was up soliciting sex in the wee hours of the morning before getting their ass handed to them by Cleveland freakin' State, or just our key point guard.
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It was after the game:

"The attorney for the two former Wake players said Tuesday night both of his clients were cleared of any wrongdoing by a school hearing and an investigation by the Miami police department into the alleged assault hours after the Demon Deacons were upset by Cleveland State on March 20, 2009, in the first round of the NCAA tournament in Miami."
 
Skydog Deac said:
Exactly the point I made a few pages back. Of course, we will have to wait and hear what she says. But from the information we have, it seems to me that her story will need to be different tomorrow to categorize this as rape. We shall see. High profile cases like this that aren't clear cut make it harder for other women to pursue charges in much more provable cases.
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I don't know if that is absolutely true. If she felt forced to preform oral sex that would be categorized as rape...right?

I am by no means saying that is what happened but even with what limited knowledge we have we can not say that a rape did not occur. And we certainly can't say that a rape did occur.

Also...I love Andy Katz.
 
Deacon923 said:
There have been mixed messages about whether this occurred the night before or the night after the Cleveland State game. ESPN story clearly states it was "only hours before", i.e. 3 or 4 AM on the night before/day of the game. According to the story, the players were supposed to have a 5:30 AM wakeup call. So I guess Teague and Clark got about 1 hour of sleep the night before they were supposed to start a deep run into the NCAA tourney.

Wonder if the rest of the team was up soliciting sex in the wee hours of the morning before getting their ass handed to them by Cleveland freakin' State, or just our key point guard.
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Reread the story. It's very clear that the incident happened after the game.
 
deacvision7 said:
It was after the game:

"The attorney for the two former Wake players said Tuesday night both of his clients were cleared of any wrongdoing by a school hearing and an investigation by the Miami police department into the alleged assault hours after the Demon Deacons were upset by Cleveland State on March 20, 2009, in the first round of the NCAA tournament in Miami."
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Why did they have a 5am wake up call the next morning? The season was over.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
Why did they have a 5am wake up call the next morning? The season was over.
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The longer they stay in Miami, the more money it costs, plus the time you spend away from classes and schoolwork.

When I was in the band, our call times were very early for that very reason.
 
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