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Official 2016 Republican National Convention thread

jhmd2000 said:
You're either with identity politics, or you are against it. Townie has no time for your nuance.
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I have all the time in the world if you want to explain the nuance of his straw man about the GOP praising the Orlando shooting. That is definitely something I have time to listen to, if you'd like to explain it to me. In fact, any nuance about LGBT issues you'd like to discuss would be welcomed.
 
TownieDeac said:
I have all the time in the world if you want to explain the nuance of his straw man about the GOP praising the Orlando shooting. That is definitely something I have time to listen to, if you'd like to explain it to me. In fact, any nuance about LGBT issues you'd like to discuss would be welcomed.
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The question is if it was a redneck with a Confederate flag shirt who killed all those gay people, would the GOP be as outraged?
 
TownieDeac said:
DADT is a helluva lot more progressive than Amendment 1, HB2, etc.

If you want your party to be more socially progressive, good for you. Just don't pretend like the first time a GOP convention acknowledges the human existence of LGBTQ individuals isn't a big deal.
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It's not a big deal, not for the reason ELC says, but because they don't mean it -- it's against their actual platform and literally everything VP Pence stands for. Load of BS, surprised you buy into any of it, Townie, given that 97% of what came out of Trump's mouth last night was a lie.
 
Not only is Pence as strong of a social conservative as you'll find, Trump also said he wouldn't nominate a supreme court justice that believed in gay marriage. I mean it's nice that he said those letters really slow in the middle of a doomsday speech though.
 
Anyway, I had not watched any of the convention until last night except for a part of Pence's speech online and after the fact, which bored me in short order. I caught part of Ivanka's speech, which sounded like it was was meant for the DNC (note: I doubt any of the fact-checkers will take her to task for her misleading women earning less than men numbers), and then all of Trump's. A few observations...

Predictably, the media has focused on it being a "dark" or "negative" speech and it was definitely that. It was also "loud" as some others have said. But they're missing the larger issue here. Look around you or on social media for the last several years and especially this election cycle and you'll see that nobody is happy, from the Bernie-bots to the Trumpers to the GOPers mad about Trump to the Hillary supporters. Everybody is fucking pissed. It's a symptom of the time and Trump reflects that. I suppose you can argue that he needed to use the opportunity to show restraint and look Presidential and instead came off like he always does, but I disagree. He wasn't talking about his cock and he showed the ability to read words from a teleprompter without going off script too much. Low bar, I know, but that's all he needed to do. And he has even been reeling it in online lately too, in case you haven't noticed. So yeah, he sounded a bit angry, but the people criticizing him for that apparently don't own any mirrors.

His facts were clearly cherry picked. Crime is down overall, as usually happens when an economy improves. But he was pretty specific in painting crime as a worsening problem in the inner-cities ("50 largest cities"). Where his facts stand relative to what he actually said is the only thing I'm curious about, and I'm not going to get a WaPo account to have the WaPo (or any other supposed "fact check" website) tell me where they think Trump's facts delve into spin and therefore deserve the worst rating as opposed to a middle rating that Hillary would get for something similar.

I saw another "fact check" about 10 minutes after his speech last night blast him for portraying the tax burden incorrectly. Well, I'm sorry he didn't specify corporate tax burden, but that was clearly what he was talking about when he immediately launched into his spiel about attracting business. We can argue about what the corporate tax rate is compared to what corporations actually pay, but the corporate rate is too high and that is factual. It's at 39%, just behind such esteemed company as Chad and the UAE who have the first and second highest, respectively.

The criminal immigrants released was not right. The one important issue to me and the one issue where Trump is definitely right, albeit for reasons he still hasn't grasped or articulated. We all know enforcement is a joke and the catch and release policies make it even worse, but ICE doesn't have a habit of releasing violent felons back into the population unless there is paperwork error somewhere. I can't speak for the vetting process on a lot of these guys they're picking up at the border and dropping off in the cities, though. I guess they're technically criminals if you want to include their illegal entry as a criminal offense versus and administrative one, but to me they're not. But there is still the enormous problem of unchecked or poorly checked illegal immigration and the more recent problem of sanctuary cities. We said we'd address the issue in the 80s (as a condition of the first amnesty) and clearly have failed. Finish the fucking wall already and turn people around when they're caught. It isn't rocket science.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
His facts were clearly cherry picked. Crime is down overall, as usually happens when an economy improves. But he was pretty specific in painting crime as a worsening problem in the inner-cities ("50 largest cities"). Where his facts stand relative to what he actually said is the only thing I'm curious about, and I'm not going to get a WaPo account to have the WaPo (or any other supposed "fact check" website) tell me where they think Trump's facts delve into spin and therefore deserve the worst rating as opposed to a middle rating that Hillary would get for something similar.
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-says-homicides-are-17-percent-50-bigg/

"Homicide rates have declined steadily since 1993, through both Republican and Democratic presidencies," said Raymond Paternoster, a University of Maryland criminologist.
And as a result of this long-term decline, the crime rate has been "low for so long that a tiny increase becomes a large percent increase," said Alan Lizotte, criminal justice professor at the University at Albany.
Our ruling
Trump said, "Homicides last year increased by 17 percent in America’s 50 largest cities. That’s the largest increase in 25 years."
The statement comes from a credible source -- calculations made by the Washington Post. However, in painting a bleak picture, Trump cherry-picks the Post’s overall findings -- and makes mistakes criminologists warn about.
The Post article acknowledged that FBI data found a smaller increase in recent years, with contradictory results for many cities. And experts caution against putting too much stock in short-term changes, since year-to-year data can be volatile for hard-to-discern reasons.
Lost in Trump’s formulation is that, overall, violent crime has been falling consistently for about a quarter century. The statement contains an element of truth but ignores facts that would give a different impression, so we rate his claim Half True.
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So his cherry picked stat was rated "half true."
 
Trump is back to accusing Ted Cruz's father of being involved in JFK's assassination today.
 
Shooshmoo said:
It's not a big deal, not for the reason ELC says, but because they don't mean it -- it's against their actual platform and literally everything VP Pence stands for. Load of BS, surprised you buy into any of it, Townie, given that 97% of what came out of Trump's mouth last night was a lie.
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Fuck Your Couch said:
Not only is Pence as strong of a social conservative as you'll find, Trump also said he wouldn't nominate a supreme court justice that believed in gay marriage. I mean it's nice that he said those letters really slow in the middle of a doomsday speech though.
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You're missing the forest for the trees. I'm not suggesting a Trump/Pence presidency or continued GOP Congress rule is good for the cause. Only that it's a positive that they said some letters at the convention and acknowledged their existence as humans.
 
it is pretty great to see ELC acknowledge that even where trump is right it's for the wrong reasons

other than bkf/bsf4l are there any real trump supporters on here?
 
EatLeadCommie said:
What about DOMA?
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i'm not gonna jump through hoops pretending Bill was progressive about gay marriage, but his role wasn't introducing it, he said it was divisive and gay-hating, and it was veto-proof anyway

the pivot the clintons did about gay marriage was pretty late in the game for my taste, but like the GOP token nods to LGBT at the convention, baby steps

clintons have always been too anti-progressive for my tastes, still are

but DOMA isn't exactly a gotcha for my stance that it's been one party putting forward regressive, anti-gay social policy for a couple decades now

the GOP party platform since 2000 has had some form of anti-gay messaging in it, which is completely unacceptable
 
TownieDeac said:
You're missing the forest for the trees. I'm not suggesting a Trump/Pence presidency or continued GOP Congress rule is good for the cause. Only that it's a positive that they said some letters at the convention and acknowledged their existence as humans.
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He should've left out the T in LGBTQ since they're just fucked up.

TownieDeac said:
it is pretty great to see ELC acknowledge that even where trump is right it's for the wrong reasons

other than bkf/bsf4l are there any real trump supporters on here?
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Not all of his reasons are wrong. My main issue with him is there are very rational reasons to want immigration enforcement which could be articulated and he has halfassed it there like he does with everything else. But in fairness, I haven't seen any politician address the issue like they know what they're talking about.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
Trump is back to accusing Ted Cruz's father of being involved in JFK's assassination today.
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For fuck's sake, Cruz is zero threat to Trump now. Undecided swing state voters have no option to vote for Cruz and aren't going to be swayed toward a nutty fuck now after the last year.

Trump really is his own worst enemy. Sleepy was left for dead after his stupid shit about the pyramids and a blatent cash grab, but Trump still kicked him in the head a few extra times to make sure everyone knew he was an asshole.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Predictably, the media has focused on it being a "dark" or "negative" speech and it was definitely that. It was also "loud" as some others have said. But they're missing the larger issue here. Look around you or on social media for the last several years and especially this election cycle and you'll see that nobody is happy, from the Bernie-bots to the Trumpers to the GOPers mad about Trump to the Hillary supporters. Everybody is fucking pissed. It's a symptom of the time and Trump reflects that. I suppose you can argue that he needed to use the opportunity to show restraint and look Presidential and instead came off like he always does, but I disagree. He wasn't talking about his cock and he showed the ability to read words from a teleprompter without going off script too much. Low bar, I know, but that's all he needed to do. And he has even been reeling it in online lately too, in case you haven't noticed. So yeah, he sounded a bit angry, but the people criticizing him for that apparently don't own any mirrors.
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I realize you did preface this by stating it's what you're seeing on social media and coming from the rabid supporters of the different campaigns, but I'm not pissed off, nor do I know others really who are, at the state of the U.S. (with the obvious exception of some of the things that have been pointed out here previously like HB2, gun control, etc). Are most "normal" people really that mad at how their lives are going in this America that needs to be "taken back?"
 
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